Criticize Islam!

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You are generalizing just as the others you accuse of doing this. Jews were stripped of all rights. Muslems have even Muslem schools in the UK and on the continent. They have political organisations. Politicians are not to blame, we even have Muslem politicians in parliament. Only the extremist parties are responsible and to blame for hate mongering.

What about the European Arabic league in Brussels who now demand that Arabic becomes the fourth official language of Belgium????

Last edited by Loborojo on 29 Sep 2008, 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

But it already is:
Specific Questions

Does the Qur'an assume that its readers have already heard of "Allah"? Yes

Should we look into pre-Islamic Arabian history to see who "Allah" was before Muhammad? Yes.

What religion was Muhammad’s family and tribe? Pagans

Did the pagan Arabs worship the sun, moon and the stars? Yes

Did the pagan Arabs built temples to the Moon-god? Yes

Was the title "al-ilah" (the god) used of the Moon-god Hubal? Yes

Was the word "Allah" derived from "al-ilah?" Yes

Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.

Was the Kabah the "house of the Moon-god"? Yes.

Did the pagans practice the Pilgrimage, the Fast of Ramadan, running around the Kabah seven times, kissing the black stone, shaving the head, animal sacrifices, running up and down two hills, throwing stones at the devil, snorting water in and out the nose, praying several times a day toward Mecca, giving alms, Friday prayers, etc.? Yes.

Did Muhammad command his followers to participate in these pagan ceremonies while the pagans were still in control of Mecca? Yes

Did Islam go on to adopt these pagan religious rites? Yes.

Was the crescent moon an ancient pagan symbol of the Moon-god throughout the ancient world? Yes.

Was it the religious symbol of the Moon-god in Arabia? Yes

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called "the daughters of Allah"? Yes.

Did the Qur'an In Surah 53:19-20 at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes..

Have those verses been "abrogated" out of the present Qur'an? Yes.

What were they called? "The Satanic Verses." Yes.

Were stars also used as pagan symbols of the daughers of Allah? Yes

Did Islam adopt the pagan crescent moon and stars as it religious symbol? Yes.

Is it possible that most Muslims do not know the pagan sources of the symbols and rites of their own religion? Yes.

Are they shocked to find out the true sources of their ceremonies and stories?
Yes

Can Islam be the religion of Abraham if it is derived from paganism? No

Is the "Allah" of the Qur'an, the Christian God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? No

Do the Jews say that the Muslim "Allah" is their God too? No

Then whose god is Allah? Paganism

brilliant, thanks for this info!! ! You done your homework. The christians absorbed druid values just the same

Ameen, Amen, Ohm, Amin

Yes, the Arabs were following a paganised previous revelation of Islam, as revealed by Abraham. They were well aware of him and the concept of one monotheistic God. Their religion was similar to hinduism, with lots of animal sacrifice.



Muhammed (S) and Ali were Hanif. Those who rejected idolatory.



Yes.



No. "Al" is the Arabic word for "The". "Lah" is the Arabic word for "one". Arab Christians also use the word "Allah" for God, fyi.



Like I said, their pagan religion was similar to Hinduism. Hindus regard their 330 million Gods and Goddesses as incarnations of one God, and worship him through them. Similarily, the pagan Arabs worshiped one God through these Gods. Similarily, Christians worship God through Jesus.



Yes. As far as Islam is concerned, every religion was similar to Islam initially, but were later corrupted by man. That's why, all religions have some kind of similarity to Islam.



Again, these were always Islamic rites. Always.



Yes, that's why many Muslims reject representing the religion with the crecent and moon. The symbol that the prophet used was a white flag and a black flag.



Yes. Satan came to the prophet in the form of the angel Gabriel and gave these false verses. Later, Gabriel told the prophet that what he did was wrong, and the prophet immediately removed the fake verses. Most Muslims reject these events.




I've already responded to these.



Christianity, on the other hand, is a pagan religion disguised as a monotheistic one. Everything, from the trinity, veneration of saints, Christmas, Sunday worship, etc, are derived from the pagan religions of Greece, Rome, and Egypt. If you wish to discuss these factors, I'll gladly create a new thread later, or discuss them here.

I am aware of the fishy roots of xianity and the date changes to match up with pagan holidays. But the xians are not the the issue, the subject of this thread is criticize islam.
Your answers do nothing to change the questions and answers. The roots and practices of islam are exactly the same as the moon god Hubal "Ha Baal" of the ancient hindu arabs.
Islam is the only religion in the world that states in its book to kill people who will not submit to it. The bloody murders of innocent people in its name are proof of the beliefs of it's followers. (Muslims don't think they are innocent because the are non believers, but the rest of the world does.) If it were different, moslems around the world would stand up in outrage instead of celebrating the bloodshed the "radicals" cause.

Free speech in Pakistan??? Free speech in Lybia, Malaysia??? The latter has sent Anwar Ibrahim to jail on accusaiton of sodomy and try do do it again this year, just because he challenged the dictatator Mahatir and now this government.

Muslems are bumi putre and have discounts onloans from the banks while Hindus and Chinese malay don't have that right.

No, that is not true. Judeo-Christian beliefs state that "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Exodus 22:18 (King James Version) This has been used to put people to death on numerous occasions.

The logic is clear: Since our path is the path of God, and they are not on our path, they must be on Satan's path, and they are therefore witches, warlock's, sorcerers and what-not. Give them a chance to confess and mend their ways - if they refuse, kill them. The Bible says so.



Again, you are ignoring the Algerian civil war, the past 5 decades in Egypt, and dozens of other examples of where there was conflict between moderate and extremist/fundamentalist elements. That happens in all religions.

Hence also in during the conquest of indigenous peoples in the NEW WORLD, the Church believed in killing the savages, they beleived that killing infants and adult and baptizing them just before, their souls would still go to heaven, so they were saving them. A nice one to pull off if you want to tranquilise your guilty conciousness

Islam on th eother hand believed in killing the infidels, the Quoaran was written something like 800 AD? that was a time when there were wars everywhere, so surely those edicts of killing the other infidel was 'only normal'.

BTW. It is said that Muhammed had asked not to write anything of what he said down, for fear that it would be misinterpreted. there are still quarrels over how to pray to Allah: Standing upright or on your knees???

Rofl! I feel sorry for them.

Have you seen a Pakistani film called Khuda Kay Liye? You should really watch it (with subs), it clears all these misconceptions Muslims have of their own religion.



[youtube]http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=GT3ol-iuCGU[/youtube]



Conversion rate and growth rate is controvertial. If you have a problem with immigration, write to your govt and ask them to pass a referandum banning immigration.



I suggest you do a little research before passing baseless comments. The Arab countries are not communist, lol. There's a lot of private owned media. Women have always been allowed to drive in Kuwait. Kuwait, in fact, has the second most free economy in the middle east, along with free speech and political rights. It's a constitutional monarchy, like the UK.



I personally would suggest hetracil.



Pakistan has lots of free speech...don't know about Libya. Doubt Gaddafi will allow anyone to criticise him.

Ah, yes, Malaysia.. The ruling party will do whatever possible to prevent the Chinese from toppling the government. That's despotism.

I know of the Bumiputra situation there. Even Chinese and Hindu converts are not given the status of Bumiputra. The indegenous population of Malaysia is also Bumiputra. Most of the are Christians. It doesn't have anything to do with religion. It's ethnically biased politics.

If free speech allows hatred speech and populist nonsense like the Vlaams Belang in our native land uses, then I dont want that freedom of speech. I am not against some censorship, not if it is in an unextreme form. Is it wrong that the press in some countries like Qatar or UAE not publish anti-islamic comments? I think it is better to do this than to allow different groups to provocate each other and justify it all under the motto of freedom of speech. So frankly, I am not against the type of censorship applied in some Arab countries, unless we get into extremes such as Saudi Arabia but most Arabs from other countries also dislike the Saudi political and social systems.

Europe has lost it already? Lost what? I am welcoming Islamic immigrants and I dont want them to adapt to our "western values". I want a multicultural society where we can all maintain our cultural backgrounds as we wish, and live next to each other in an atmosphere of peace. It works good enough in places like Toronto, Sydney, ... if it does not work in Europe, then maybe the staunch attitude of Europeans and their growing intolerance is also a cause of this. If we reach a hand to the immigrants we will get a hand back. I am ashamed when I see right wing parties doing so well in Europe, this is not the Europe I want to know. I want to see tolerance, and a solidarity like it exists in (oh the irony) several Muslim societies...

Your logic is twisted. Everyone who practices sorcery does not believe, but all those who do not believe do not necessarily practice sorcery.
The xian church never condoned those murders. They were done by kings using the verse as an excuse. The people who committed the murders were excommunicated.
Instead of being excommunicated, I see islamic murderers being celebrated and held as heroes instead.

It is not past tense. Moslems still think it is normal and good to kill infidels today. In fact, they are killing infidels as fast as they can. As a comparison, More people are killed by islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
Follow the link: List of Islamic Terror Attacks For the Past 2 Months

from that link: 9/25/2008 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 Fundamentalists gun down a local homosexual rights leader inside a barber shop

Ok, but if there things like this listed , do we count all the deaths of gays in the US as victims of Christians? What about blacks lynched by the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? Slavery in the US? Extermination of the Indians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_mi ... acy_of_war

If you ask most Muslims about those terrorists, we'll all tell you that they're going to hell. ^^

It of course creates the question why Allah wrote his message so ambiguous that these people feel confirmed by the holy texts. I mean... I do not want to be disrespectful, but wouldn't a holy text definitely need to be more clear than the instructions of a VCR? (not even an Islam specific question)

You are not giving any answers to my arguments about muslems sitting in parliament. In Holland hey ahve a right to vote, In Belgium not. I can't vote if I were to reside in S Arabia or anywhere else.

I think Muslems or any other immigrant shoul dhave the right to vote as thye are paying taxes. But let's not be too naive in neglecting the machination of certain undergroudn grousp who try to erode teh State by palying the victim.

BTW Het Vlaams Belang only gets stronger by martyrizing it, le cordon sanitaire has never worked, on the ocntrary it has whipped up traditional parties like CVP and other to take over stances from them in a moderate version to keep ahead of VB.

Racism is everywhere and for survival someon has to draw the line somewhere. I spent time with brazilian tribes, none of them want their children to marry a brazilian, as they are alread a minority, before long their culture is wiped out and so their beliefs.

I am not against mixing races, casue I believe they will be the new worlds in the end of th 21rst century.

But I can understand someone who grew up in a corner in Antwerp where he ahs always seen people he knew and grew up with only to realize that at age 70 most of his friends have died or moved out, the street has been transformed into an Arab neighbourhood with mosk and all. He has no one he can relate to or identify with and has become a forgotten fleming by his socialistic paryt, no one is ther to take care of his old age and rights and has become a minority in his own street. Those people vote for VB, because they feel abandoned by thier countrymen. And that's sad.

As a kid at school in Brussel I left St Lukas, Flemish school and next to us was a Fraench speaking school. When the gates opened for us to go home, the Moroccan children shouted at us "Sale Flamin", which they learned from the Wallons.

I worked as a volunteer in St.Joost ten Node, I had to be watchman one day in a cultural Flemish centre there. there was going to b e hip hop party. Now I love music and love to dance: So, I couldn't stay any longer in my office. I wnet to the ballroom and started to dance. Within minutes I was encircled by the immigrant youngsters, who threw money at me and laughed at me. I felt so humiliated, here was I trying to mix wiht them, but they didn' want mixing with me, Now way, and the cultural centre paid for everything.

Now what attitude is that? Frequently I 've come across that kind of racist attitude in Molenbeek, schaerbeek, Jette, you name it. Ilived 15 years in Brussels. That's where I draw the line: RESPECT, and don't take over the country with your culture. Blend in o rgo back where you came from and that's an attitude that I hear in all countries I visited!