Pope puts stress on 'gay threat'

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skafather84
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26 Dec 2008, 12:19 pm

ducasse wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Why does no question the existence of Pilate himself? Just a thought.

why would anyone bother questioning the existence of Pilate? no one is telling me what i can & can't do based on what Pilate said.

not to mention there's records of pilate.

there's records of numerous people named jesus (yeshua was a pretty common name) but not especially records that fit the story told in the bible.

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Macbeth
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26 Dec 2008, 12:19 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:

anna-banana wrote:

Delirium wrote:

If you were to compare Jesus and another religious figure, the best one would probably be Buddha. A lot of Christian and Buddhist teachings are so similar, it's scary.

if it only wasn't for the fact that Buddha lived 500 years before Christ

Assuming Christ lived at all... He's only mentioned in a one book (guess which one) and he is strangely absent from every historical record of the time. Funny how Pilate kept records of everything BUT that one man's trial and execution...

Consider the Roman perspective. They were running an Empire.. and had been for quite some time. How many hundreds, if not thousands, of insurgents, rebels, and political undesirables do you think they dealt with throughout the history of said empire? A non-violent protester and half a dozen friends of like mind, claiming all sorts of rubbish about some God or other..? Hardly a blip on the radar. To Pilate, he was probably never even a blip on the radar. Internal problems of a subject and vassal nation.. hardly worth noticing so long as the taxes keep on flowing. The Jews are having another argument about that God of theirs? Who cares. We have more and better gods.

Even the biggest "jesus" events were probably less noteworthy than the results of last weeks "Gladiators". So 5000 people went to a meeting.. then came back. No riots, no murders, no theft.. just a story about excellent catering. Its not surprising that Jesus does not figure in the records. He didn't do anything to be noted... at least not by Government.

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26 Dec 2008, 2:01 pm

So Jesus was crucified by the Romans for no doing anything particularly noteworthy? You're forgetting how much a of a high-profile sh*t-disturber he was.

ike
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26 Dec 2008, 2:19 pm

Macbeth wrote:

Even the biggest "jesus" events were probably less noteworthy than the results of last weeks "Gladiators". So 5000 people went to a meeting.. then came back. No riots, no murders, no theft.. just a story about excellent catering. Its not surprising that Jesus does not figure in the records. He didn't do anything to be noted... at least not by Government.

You don't think the government would have been interested in a man who cured leppers by touching them and raised men from the dead? For that matter, even non-miracle events... There are passages in the bible in which the throng of followers around Jesus are massive, as you mentioned, 5000 people... If 5000 people went to a "meeting", they'd want to know why in pretty good detail just for general purpose to ensure that this wasn't a growing insurgent threat. They're not going to blow it off as just a wierd "one time event". They're going to want to know more about the guy those people are following - what his beliefs are and whether he's likely to lead his followers against Rome. And even once they know he's not currently a threat, they're going to want to keep tabs on him to make sure he doesn't become a threat in the future.

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skafather84
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26 Dec 2008, 2:20 pm

slowmutant wrote:

So Jesus was crucified by the Romans for no doing anything particularly noteworthy? You're forgetting how much a of a high-profile sh*t-disturber he was.

even the bible itself states that he didn't do anything noteworthy by the romans...hence the washing of the hands of the situation...it was the romans granting autonomy to the sanhedrin.

if anything, he was a model roman citizen who even told people to pay their taxes (give to caesar what's his).

skafather84
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26 Dec 2008, 2:22 pm

ike wrote:

You don't think the government would have been interested in a man who cured leppers by touching them and raised men from the dead?

messiahs were commonplace back then and those miracles were claimed by many people beyond just jesus.

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26 Dec 2008, 2:26 pm

slowmutant wrote:

So Jesus was crucified by the Romans for no doing anything particularly noteworthy? You're forgetting how much a of a high-profile sh*t-disturber he was.

I agree with skafather.

Jesus was a rebel, but he rebelled against orthodox judaism so he was more of a threat to the Jewish rabbies or however they were called back then. the Romans didn't care at all what the people believed as long as they obeyed.

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slowmutant
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26 Dec 2008, 2:30 pm

skafather84 wrote:

ike wrote:

You don't think the government would have been interested in a man who cured leppers by touching them and raised men from the dead?

messiahs were commonplace back then and those miracles were claimed by many people beyond just jesus.

Such as?

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26 Dec 2008, 2:33 pm

Macbeth wrote:

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." < this is hardly a blip on the radar?

skafather84
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26 Dec 2008, 2:41 pm

slowmutant wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

ike wrote:

You don't think the government would have been interested in a man who cured leppers by touching them and raised men from the dead?

messiahs were commonplace back then and those miracles were claimed by many people beyond just jesus.

Such as?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

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26 Dec 2008, 2:47 pm

If it's on Wikipedia, it must be accurate.

Really?

anna-banana
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26 Dec 2008, 2:50 pm

slowmutant wrote:

If it's on Wikipedia, it must be accurate.

Really?

the Bible was written by it's users as well ;p

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ducasse
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26 Dec 2008, 2:52 pm

slowmutant wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

ike wrote:

You don't think the government would have been interested in a man who cured leppers by touching them and raised men from the dead?

messiahs were commonplace back then and those miracles were claimed by many people beyond just jesus.

Such as?

Appolonius of Tyana would probably be the most famous.

Simon Magus was another.

There were many others, but they're not as interesting as those two.

skafather84
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26 Dec 2008, 2:54 pm

slowmutant wrote:

If it's on Wikipedia, it must be accurate.

Really?

yes, really.

ducasse
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26 Dec 2008, 2:55 pm

slowmutant wrote:

If it's on Wikipedia, it must be accurate.

Really?

You don't trust wikipedia when it lists names of people who claimed to be messiah & includes historical sources, but you trust the Bible when it makes all sorts of unsubstantiated claims about people rising from the dead.

Really?

skafather84
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26 Dec 2008, 2:55 pm

ducasse wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

ike wrote:

You don't think the government would have been interested in a man who cured leppers by touching them and raised men from the dead?

messiahs were commonplace back then and those miracles were claimed by many people beyond just jesus.

Such as?

Appolonius of Tyana would probably be the most famous.

Simon Magus was another.

There were many others, but they're not as interesting as those two.

i always thought simon bar kokhba was also interesting. i mean if he was pretty close to being the new messiah after temporarily expelling the romans.

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