The Church (In General) & Aspies

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I am a Christian. I do not go to church. I do not think it is that important. The early church meet in houses to pray and read the Bible. I do not think it is important to go to a loud crowded place to sing songs and try and understand a person talking that I can not understand.

Pastor Nate,

To clarify what I posted, most people at my Catholic church
see my family as "anti-social" or "strange",
despite my mother having many friends in my church's Hispanic community.
They have an afternoon Mass.

Most people in my church don't know I have AS so they leave me be.

My family doesn't bother being "churchy" because
we have more important matters to fufill.

No special needs ministry at any church in Portland.

Peace,
AA

I think God speaks for Himself, and you don't have to tell me what He thinks because I'm sure you have no idea what He thinks. If it was too long for your attention span, then don't read it. Besides, it wasn't directed to you.

I already said that the church is not what it was intended. You just took me out of context.

Catholics study latin based on the first translation, the Latin Vulgate (common speech), by St. Jerome. They, back in the day, preferred Latin and Greek because it was a better language for grammar and syntax in Bible preservation, but since many people wanted to be able to read the Bible, many translations took place later in their language (i.e. English). Many Catholic Priests like to be able to read the Bible in it's original language (hebrew and greek). But, my explanation was geared to "WHY I CHOOSE CATHOLICISM" and that is because IN MY EXPERIENCE, I never met a Protestant minister who reads Hebrew and Greek, yet I've already met many Priests and Catholic church members who do, in addition to Latin. If the situation was vice versa in my area, then I'd probably have a different opinion, but since I'm not able to go to any of the Protestant churches to which I think you might be referring (they might be real or imaginative), then it's of no use to me.

I'm not sure I understand what point you were trying to make on the translations, but let me verify first. It's not about the Catholic Bible. They welcome many different translations and Bibles (including the Protestant Bible) for your personal use as I was taught in the RCIA program. The Bible in the church in the pews and the one they give freely is the Catholic Bible which varies between countries as most of the time, they choose the one they paid to have translated and published. When I was referring to translations, I was referring to the types of translations or versions out there like word for word versus thought for thought versus main point. King James Version is a word for word translation while something like New Century is a thought for thought. I learned about this from one day in the Catholic Church as opposed to all those years I spent in the Protestant church who didn't seem to recognize the differences. On the people claiming anything, The Church has showed me more about copyright problems from back in the day more so than my Protestant History. Again, we are still on WHY I CHOOSE.

The Pope and Priests have nothing to do with the importance of women as much as the role of one in modern day church. Like, my daughter could be a minister in the Protestant church and not in teh Catholic church. But, my whole history in Protestant Church focused their teachings of women in the Bible on their sin. You rarely hear about the good women in the Bible. Mary gets lost behind Jesus in the Protestant Church who likes to turn around and condemn the Catholic Church for giving Mary the respect she deserves. It's not about what women are allowed to do in the social structure of the church but how they are portrayed by the church that's important to me. You don't have to have the title to live the way you feel God has called you to live.

As far as Jewish religion, as I understand it, Rosh Chodesh is when women don't have to work on the first day of every month in honor of the women who refused to take part in idol worship while Moses was on Mount Sinai. What Protestant Holiday gives women that kind of respect?

It's not about the men being killed if they stayed or not. It's about the fact that it was women who were there for Christ at the time of his death. The idea that it was something a man was incapable of doing because of the social setting just empowers women more. But it is a point rarely brought up by Protestants only brought to my attention by Catholics. Again, we are still on WHY I CHOOSE.

I don't care why the Catholics have Saints and a Pope AS MUCH AS I care about making things tangible to my children. I made it clear that the only reason I want to go to church is for my children to learn about God and the Bible. Kids are concrete thinkers, and the concept of God is vague at best to their minds, so I need something tangible for them to cling to as well in their learning process. That's something only the Catholic Church can offer in the sense of Saints. It also teaches them that anyone can be called on to do good things in this world, and that righteousness doesn't stop at the death of Christ.

If you created a religion at all, I would not fall for it. I was merely stating that saying a prayer to help fight something that scares you is comforting to children. Since children are concrete thinkers, it helps to imagine Michael flying down with his fiery sword and slaying all the monsters around you. I don't know where you get "name in the Bible" but hey, it seems to me you missed my point entirely anyway.

The things that attract people, wow? Cmon now. I could probably say the same about you. Why are you on this forum? I'm sure I can find a way to mock your reasons to anything. At least I put more thought into it than most people.

Dogma was a Kevin Smith movie. Silent Bob. Duh.

The fact you so strongly feel you had to respond to such a long response as mine and then randomnly throw in a statement on "if" God exists, then He'd basically be a sadist only proves to me somewhere deep inside you that you do think He does exist and He just pissed you off somewhere along the way. Either way, you seem pretty bitter about it all, and maybe you might want to work on resolving that drama because, well, it's hard to be happy when you're bitter. Whether this pertains to you or not, just make sure you don't confuse God with people who claim to be acting on His behalf.

I don't understand what you are saying at all about Santa. I want to go off the Saint to show facts and truth rather than create a mythical creature that the military monitors every Christmas Eve. If I want to inspire hope, I can do better with other fake pretend stories than a fat guy who eats your cookies and gives you junk. I personally like angels and find it frustrating that Santa has more shelf space than Gabriel. Even if I didn't have any religious feelings on the subject, IMO, Santa is tacky.

If you find my username to be "obnoxious" and "pretentious," I'm sorry that you feel that way. It was not my intention to offend anyone or to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

Secondly, if you must know, I am a student at North Central University (formerly North Central Bible College,) and I am studying to be a Pastor, so with all do respect, if I were you, I would take back your snide little comment.

How do the people in your church treat you? Do they intentionally include you in the ministries of your church, or are they incredibly ignorant when it comes to understanding and ministering to you and your "Special" needs?

Well, right now, only the pastor knows, but I am thinking of telling the rest of the congregation. The Senior Pastor has been helpful and interested in understanding Aspergers and that's been a great help.

For those of you who are acitvely involved in the life of your church, what roles do you play?
I'm the Associate Pastor. The job fits me, because it's not as social as the Senior Pastor and one of my foci is developing and maintaining the website. Being an Associate allows me to see the system that is the is the church and how to improve it.

Is there presently an active, regularly scheduled, on-going "Special Needs" Ministry in your church in which you are presently involved?
No, but I am thinking about starting something. I want to do some kind of forum where we talk about autism and faith and how congregations can be more welcoming. It's something that has become a driving force in my life.

I've noticed you also live in Minneapolis. We should chat sometime.

Why not change your name to just plain Nate (short for Nathan the name of the prophet who told King David what is what)?

As for Pastor, a pastor is the keeper of flock. Do you regard others as sheep to herded? I hope not. I tend to think of other people as people, not sheep who would go astray if I did not guide them along the Strait and Narrow Way.

ruveyn ( I am no one's sheep)

Hi Pastor Nate, I have heard of North Central University a lot. Some people that go to my church and some people that used to go to my church have gone to North Central University. I am an aspie and I am also a christian. I go to an Assemblies of God church.
Not many people in my church know about my Asperger's. I have told quite a few people at church about my Asperger's, though. Some people that know about my Asperger's like that I need to be healed of it. Some people have even prayed for me to be healed. I personally, don't think that I need to be healed of Asperger's, though. Other things I do, but that's another story.
I am a volunteer in the nursery at church the 5th Sunday of every month. I also clean up and help before and after social gathering at church. Some people at church still don't understand my Asperger's. There is no special needs ministry at the church that I go to. BTW, I am a Spirit Filled Pentecostal believer. Feel free to PM me. I'll try to PM you too. I also have yahoo messenger. Take Care. Dawn

Very observant, ruveyn! You're very right in the fact that a "Pastor" is a "keeper" of the sheep. I don't think of myself as a keeper. I tend to look at my spiritual office much like Jesus Himself understood his "office." Jesus came not to be served, but to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many. In short, He saw his "earthly office" as that of a "Shepherd," one who looks after, cares for and many cases, protects the flock from danger.

You're right that people are people, but scripture does point out pretty clearly that we have ALL sinned, and that we have fallen incredibly short of God's ultimate plan and will for our lives, and...in a sense, strayed from the path and the protection of " The Good Shepherd," but....the good news is.....we can choose the FREE gift of God, which is Eternal Life for those who would choose to re-join the safety and protection of His flock.

If you are like me and you really love reading a good book, be sure to look up and purchase a copy of the book, The Way of The Shepherd: 7 Ancient Secrets to Managing Productive People by Dr. Kevin Leman & William Pentak. I had to read it myself as required reading for my "Foundations of Leadership" class at North Central University, and I HIGHLY recommend it! Although it's only 128 pages long, (and the size of the book practically fits in the palm of your hand!,) it is a GOOD read! I WILL caution you, however. Once you pick it up and start reading it, you will NOT be able to put it down! Make sure that you have a black pen and a highlighter handy while reading!

As for my own copy, if you were to look at it, you would see that many pages are highlighted and underlined!

My hope and prayer for you, my friend, is that as you read, you will begin to see leadership and shepherding in a whole entirely different light. I had so many "Ah ha!" "light bulb" moments, that those "ah ha light bulb" moments have really changed and have radically and rather significantly impacted the way in which I see and go about the whole process of operating in the spiritual office of a Pastor (or at least one in training anyways!)

Happy reading!

Until we meet again, Grace to you.

PastorNate

Pastor Nate,

Since you are in training, I would like to tell you what I think all churches in this day need.

One, I'm so sick of hearing church members and clergy speak for God. He speaks for Himself. The church isn't there to Speak for God but to help guide people to God. I just see too many people getting lost in their ego to take that guidance too far and literally try to speak for God.

Two, (goes with one, but a more specific example as there are many) judging people does not minister the Word of God. Too many churches seem to have messed that one up. In my mind, that's using the Lord's name in vain when you just plop your butt right on His throne and start doing His job for Him like pointing fingers and determining people's future in heaven or hell. I'm not saying you do that, but too many churches do. If I can get one young to understand that, maybe at least one person will spiritually benefit from it when they go to your church and feel comfortable enough to stick around until they discover God for themselves and decide to work on their morality. Since you do seem to look up to Jesus, from what I've read on His example, He seems just as concerned (if not more concerned) about the stray sheep as the flock, which more churches focus on the ones in the flock but preach about reaching those strays while they just scare them off as their teeth can often be just as vicious as a wolf's.

Three, I think it's important for church members (and this seems never taught) to understand people are on different spiritual maturity levels. You wouldn't expect a 6 year old to clean up his room and go to bed at the same time everynight on his own, but church mentality seems to expect that spiritually from people. Your college age students are going to be incredibly curious and doubtful spiritually while some guy sitting on his death bed is going to be a little more accepting of faith based concepts. I see too many churches lose their college age members by expecting them to have the mentality of a 50 year old, and what's worse, that age often has a hard time separating the concept of church from God, so when a church wrongs them, God had wronged them. I also think youth groups become more of a babysitter strategy like, let's have a social picnic for the kids type thing. An effective youth minister would understand the psychology of the age group they are dealing with and try to reach that group on their level, even if that means you have to change your approach to things.


Thank you. I just felt compelled to say that because those are the three main reasons I personally avoid church. Of course, now I have to find one because of kids.

Just for fun, a couple religious jokes...

_______________________

Differences between faith traditions:

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Anglicans don't recognize the Pope as head of the Church.

Baptists don't recognize each other at Hooters or the liquor store.

_________________________

Moses, Jesus, and another guy are out golfing.

Moses tees off first. His shot goes straight into the water trap. For his second shot, Moses parts the waters, and takes his shot from the middle of the trap.

Jesus tees off second. His shot also goes straight into the water trap. He walks across the water, and a fish comes to the surface with his ball. He moves the ball to the edge of the trap, and takes his second shot from there.

The third guy tees off last. He has a terrible slice. The ball goes outside the course, across the road, and onto the roof of a house. It rolls down the roof, into the gutter, down the gutter pipe, and onto the road where it's picked up by the wheel of a truck and thrown into the air. In mid-air it's grabbed by an eagle, who drops it on the green. A squirrel runs out on the green and nudges the ball into the hole.

Moses gives Jesus a pained look and says, "I hate golfing with your Father."

______________________________________

One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. They picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him. The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."

God listened patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well! How about this? Let's have a man making contest."

To which the man replied, "OK, great!"

But God added, "Now we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."

The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.

God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!"

______________________________________________

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: “Stop. Don’t do it.”

“Why shouldn’t I?” he asked.

“Well, there’s so much to live for!”

“Like what?”

“Are you religious?”

He said, “Yes.”

I said, “Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?”

“Christian.”

“Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?”

“Protestant.”

“Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?”

“Baptist.”

“Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?”

“Baptist Church of God.”

“Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?”

“Reformed Baptist Church of God.”

“Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?”

He said: “Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915.”

I said: “Die, heretic scum,” and pushed him off.
________________________________________________

I think you're just bragging about yourself. You don't impress me as the kind of "good" person you claim to be.

The comments about the word 'pastor' had me thinking of how our church basically emphasises how congregation members are like a flock of sheep. Implied in this, is that members shouldn't stray from it and if they do, the church will want to rein them back in. No matter what the person's will is, no matter whether that particular church doesn't suit them and maybe another congregation does.

Like the healing thing I described, it's unethical to force your will on to another person like this. It's contradictory to how this church also emphasises that people have free choice.

The "flock of sheep" allegory has had me thinking of something else. I'm sure I'm stating the obvious here, but church is extremely social and emphasises how we are all together, bonded together, part of one body etc. That wouldn't suit all Aspies and certainly not the independent minded ones.

A flock of sheep do not understand what is to be a "flock." There is no singularity of purpose. They have not come together of their own free will. If a flock of sheep had their way, they would each just wander off on their own looking for something on which to graze. And eventually they would each succumb to the elements or to some predator.

But the Body of Christ, one from many, the many in one, isn't like this.

Church leaders certainly do prefer ignorant sheep. which can be told anything, led anywhere, and conned out of hard-earned money. Throw in a person that will ask questions, and watch the sheep mill about in confusion, eventually stampeding off to other flocks.

Church leaders fear the righteous questioner.

You'd have a lot more credibility if you hadn't walked away from pastoral training and from your faith. If you want that kind of credibility, go back to church.