Thoughts on Gaza War

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Also, the Palestinian gov't cannot have Hamas. There are too many Christians in the Palestinian Ethinic Group, and already Hamas, has overlooked violence against them. The Palestinian gov't must resemble Turkey's. Also, the US and its allies most confront defeat Radical Islam not with war (Though some times nesscessary) but by discrediting its ideology with the Quran. Fight radicals with their own holy book.

You definitely need that criticism coming from the mouths of mullahs and clerics; the west can't really interject an opinion as it will not have any sort of validity. Hopefully certain people are right in guessing that Islam's own internal reformation may be on its way but the kinds of indicators that would actually give hope never seem to get aired in the media (not in a pro-war way, more to play up criticisms of Israeli and U.S. action as directly proportional to more (legitimate) Muslim outrage and more terrorists).

More fun in the propaghanda war:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... leId=11652
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mads_Gilbert

600 dead out of 1.5 million, the IDF must be horridly inept at killing people...and its not like Hamas won't have the guns mounted on the UN school roofs, hospitals, apartment buildings, and a load of human shields under, next to, as close as possible to the guns and missile turrets

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01780.html

I've Western Countries talking about making Mullah academies or something like that. So that may not be a problem for very long. Also, while the faith of Islam may be very similar to Christianity, organizationally it is very different, or so I have heard. Christianity is very hierarchical, as where Islam is very decentralized. They usually have the local community, and the local mullah/cleric. Occasionally, someone will be at a national level, but overall, there is not overiding structure. Shia Islam seems a little different, but overall, Islam is less centralized than Christianity.

The ideologies that are ruining Islam are Salafist, Wahhabi, and Qutbism. Unfortunately, Saudi Arabia uses the oil wealth to support the first two. To stop radicals, something will have to be done to Saudi Arabia. I propose the US cease supporting SA and help Jordan, with the goal of Jordan eventually taking over Saudi Arabia. Also, if Iraq collapses when we leave, Jordan can then absorb the Sunni fragment.

Particularly I think in the realm of Christianity its Catholics who have the heirarchy - priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, the pope. Shiite Islam seems to have a very similar idea with its Ayatollahs and grand ayatollahs; no central figure but something like cardinal level at the top. Other than that, it seems like most of protestant Christianity doesn't have anything of a hierarchy, the only thing you really have is just the mega-church preachers (aka. Rick Warren) who may have more public prestige but don't really have the pull to tell anyone else how to run their congregation (ie. at least no direct power). Sunni Islam, I'm really not sure of - I haven't heard of anything centralized but at the same time I definitely have heard things that would indicate its similar to protestantism in every church almost being a bit of a free-agency.



We could hypothetically find ways to not buy oil from the middle-east at all or the very least those who sponsor those groups; on the other hand doing anything to directly undermine the future existence of Saudi Arabia - again, we're talking Mecca and Medina, many sensible Muslims would have a deer-in-the-headlights moment almost in the same way that many secular Christians would if Iran and Russia swept in on Israel and some horses arse decided to start rebuilding the Temple for kicks as well as build himself a throne (gotta be careful with actions that mimic apocalyptic literature).



The thought of that happening gives me chills, I really hope Jordan never finds themselves in that position - otherwise it could easily be a WW3 scenario if Iran developed that much power in the region.

Sunni Islam is just an umbrella term for various schools of thought and ideologies, ranging from hippie-like hash smoking sufis to wahaabis lashing anyone wearing indecent clothing and stoning married adulterers to death. The Shi'a also are equally divided, the Twelvers just happen to make the majority, but even they're divided between usoolis and akhbaris. Aga Khan IV, the leader of the Ismailis (Seveners) is pretty chilled out though. In fact, I think he's cool. The Zaydis are a fanatic lot, due to their culture, they're more or less Sunni except for the whole papal-like hierachy thing.

The Sufi orders always have a proper leadership structure. Other Sunnis don't, just random positions of authority here and there which is not significant. The Shi'a always have a clergical structure, although only the Ismailis and Zaydis have a confirmed papal-like structure.

The Palestinians want peace. The Israelis want peace. The Zionists don't want peace. Hamas wants no peace.

Hamas & Hezbollah are essentially byproducts of Zionist tyranny. If not for Ariel Sharon, Ehud Barak, Ehud Olmert, and the remaining ultra Zionist gang, what is happening today would have never been the case. If Israel struck cordial relations with the PLO in the first place, there would have been peace today. But no, they just had to bomb the Lebanon to smithereens..

Strange how history always repeats itself and we never do anything about it but bicker and argue all the time.

Peace.

Hamas is to blame for this they do not want peace they want conflict so they can kill the Jewish people. In my opinion Hamas fired rockets at Israel not just to kill Jewish people but to provoke Israel into retaliating so they can use the conflict to further their agenda. These people are nuts they went on record saying they would use civilians as their shields and that is what they are doing right now, because they cannot be destroyed with bombs as long as public opinion in Gaza supports them. Now I am not saying that Israel is a saint of a country they could have handled the problems with the rockets much more efficiently but I can understand why they are doing what they are doing.

I agree with you, but Im hesitant to side with Israel unilaterally. Im really sick of the Arab-Israeli conflict and its futile quest for a lasting peace.. I think that Israel should consider automating its ground forces and hunting down Hamas and Hezbollah rocket nests with Robot Drones.

Hezbollah is now firing Rockets into Israel. I think this should now be called the Levant War. How can I change the name of the thread.

Also I think it is improbable that You will be able to have a Bosnia like state between Israel and Palestine for at least two generations. For now Palestine should be given the entirety of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Then Palestine can become a Federation, with Gaza and West Bank having a large degree of autonomy from each other.

I think the fact that there is now peace in northern ireland shows that peace anywhere is possible. People called the IRA terrorists and said they did not want peace but now they are in parliament and peaceful.

I think people should not give up hope.

Have you heard of Rachel Corrie? She was in Gaza trying to defend Palestinian homes and orchards from destruction by Israeli bulldozers. She took a stand, unarmed, in front of a bulldozer – and got run over. And the only reason the world heard about it was because this young peace activist was not Palestinian. If she had been Palestinian, the knowledge of her death would have been buried with her body under the rubble of a house where generations of the same family had lived for over 500 years. (I’ve heard so many times the Israeli excuse for occupying the land is that the Palestinians were a “nomadic people” and therefore didn’t really live anywhere.) How many times have Palestinians been given a five minute warning to get out of their home before it was destroyed, and those who were too deaf to hear the order, or too old/sick to move fast enough didn’t get out in time? Wouldn’t you call that terrorism?



A related point: how long would US politicians hold onto their congressional seats or win elections if they stopped voting to send military aid to Israel? The Zionist vote is a powerful factor in the US. To stop US military aid to Israel, the US Jewish voice of peace needs to speak louder than AIPAC .



My idea is a three state solution: at one end have a little state for Hamas supporters, at the other end have a little state for intractable Zionists, in the middle have a big state for all the people who are willing to try to live together and get along, the way Muslims and Jews and Christians did in the Middle East for centuries before the establishment of European Israel.

Hezbollah denied responsibility.
Israel's intelligence doesn't believe the rockets were launched by Hezbollah.

Lebanese army and UN troops are investigating the launching locations and doing extensive patrols to secure the southern area.

Sorry. I heard about Rockets and assumed Hezbollah. Sorry. So it would seem a couple yoohoos stole a Katyusha rocket, and launched it into Israel.

^^ and it's not me who said that ,it's the Israeli's intelligence, check your info. Anyways, there's no doubt that it was done by another by pro-Syrian or pro-Iranian proxy party, Katyushas aren't made by Hezbolla after all.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja ... -ceasefire

257 "potential terrorists" killed.

Get with the times, arab=potential terrorist.