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A story by Isaac Asimov (WARNING: Depressing as hell)

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slowmutant
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23 Jan 2009, 9:37 pm

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isn't to say that I hate references to religion


I dunno, you seem to hate references to religion. Like a vampire when someones shoves a cross in its face.



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Jan 2009, 10:25 pm

slowmutant wrote:
I dunno, you seem to hate references to religion. Like a vampire when someones shoves a cross in its face.

Really? I did not think I did. In fact, I didn't mind the theological themes related to Dr. Manhattan's character in the graphic novel "The Watchmen" much, nor do I mind philosophical books that touch on issues of the philosophy of religion or just Christianity, such as Camus' relation of rebellion to a rejection of faith, or Nietzsche's references to Christian religion, or Max Stirner citing Bible verses. In fact, I think my mind seems to constantly reference religious ideas, such as the fall and atonement, total depravity, the problem of evil, etc, and I have even engaged in multiple conversations on theology and philosophy of religion in the past. I don't see the aversion that you seem to.



slowmutant
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23 Jan 2009, 10:27 pm

Fair enough. I could be wrong about that.



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28 Jan 2009, 2:52 am

Wohoo, back after 4 days in Vegas for a bowling tournament. I'm glad that there's an interesting thread here awaiting my response.

The story mostly says what I think will happen to us in the far far future. We've already started fusing ourselves with machines in the form of peripherals (cell phones, ipods and the like), but eventually we will BECOME the machine (but not before becoming machines ourselves, I don't think). It's a depressingly weird future, imo.
Technology is exponentially increasing. Hell, most everyone on this board has seen us hit that bump on the curve where it started exploding. When I was in 5th grade, almost nobody had a computer or the internet. By 8th grade, over 90% of everyone I knew had both.
I think we will unite into one entity that will compass the universe (or at least be able to teleport to wherever it wants in 0 time). It's a crazy thought that we can't comprehend. But in 1900, do you think anybody could have conceived the internet?

I'm kind of confused about this concept of all the stars running out, though. I thought new star systems were constantly forming?? (At least that's what they said in my astronomy class)



Sand
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28 Jan 2009, 3:14 am

Cyanide wrote:
Wohoo, back after 4 days in Vegas for a bowling tournament. I'm glad that there's an interesting thread here awaiting my response.

The story mostly says what I think will happen to us in the far far future. We've already started fusing ourselves with machines in the form of peripherals (cell phones, ipods and the like), but eventually we will BECOME the machine (but not before becoming machines ourselves, I don't think). It's a depressingly weird future, imo.
Technology is exponentially increasing. Hell, most everyone on this board has seen us hit that bump on the curve where it started exploding. When I was in 5th grade, almost nobody had a computer or the internet. By 8th grade, over 90% of everyone I knew had both.
I think we will unite into one entity that will compass the universe (or at least be able to teleport to wherever it wants in 0 time). It's a crazy thought that we can't comprehend. But in 1900, do you think anybody could have conceived the internet?

I'm kind of confused about this concept of all the stars running out, though. I thought new star systems were constantly forming?? (At least that's what they said in my astronomy class)


The second law of thermodynamics indicates that energy continuously distributes itself throughout the universe. This is known as entropy. Energy is only useful when there is a difference of energy potential between two sources and that difference can be tapped to cause work. When energy is evenly distributed throughout the universe no further work can be done. That time seems to be inevitable and Asimov attempted to present what might be the final outcome.



slowmutant
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28 Jan 2009, 3:18 am

Why do you think the cosmic ac was unable to answer the question put to it?



Cyanide
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28 Jan 2009, 3:19 am

Sand wrote:
Cyanide wrote:
Wohoo, back after 4 days in Vegas for a bowling tournament. I'm glad that there's an interesting thread here awaiting my response.

The story mostly says what I think will happen to us in the far far future. We've already started fusing ourselves with machines in the form of peripherals (cell phones, ipods and the like), but eventually we will BECOME the machine (but not before becoming machines ourselves, I don't think). It's a depressingly weird future, imo.
Technology is exponentially increasing. Hell, most everyone on this board has seen us hit that bump on the curve where it started exploding. When I was in 5th grade, almost nobody had a computer or the internet. By 8th grade, over 90% of everyone I knew had both.
I think we will unite into one entity that will compass the universe (or at least be able to teleport to wherever it wants in 0 time). It's a crazy thought that we can't comprehend. But in 1900, do you think anybody could have conceived the internet?

I'm kind of confused about this concept of all the stars running out, though. I thought new star systems were constantly forming?? (At least that's what they said in my astronomy class)


The second law of thermodynamics indicates that energy continuously distributes itself throughout the universe. This is known as entropy. Energy is only useful when there is a difference of energy potential between two sources and that difference can be tapped to cause work. When energy is evenly distributed throughout the universe no further work can be done. That time seems to be inevitable and Asimov attempted to present what might be the final outcome.


Ooooh, ok. That makes sense now.



Sand
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28 Jan 2009, 4:25 am

slowmutant wrote:
Why do you think the cosmic ac was unable to answer the question put to it?


To reverse entropy is something not done in this universe so far and it looks very unlikely. It's like turning time backwards. Complexity can occur by increasing entropy in other areas but entropy is, as far as we know, inexorable.



slowmutant
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28 Jan 2009, 6:18 am

Sand wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Why do you think the cosmic ac was unable to answer the question put to it?


To reverse entropy is something not done in this universe so far and it looks very unlikely. It's like turning time backwards. Complexity can occur by increasing entropy in other areas but entropy is, as far as we know, inexorable.


I concur. Maybe that's why reverse time-travel is said to be impossible. You can't put the cause ahead of the effect, can you?



Sand
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28 Jan 2009, 7:36 am

slowmutant wrote:
Sand wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Why do you think the cosmic ac was unable to answer the question put to it?


To reverse entropy is something not done in this universe so far and it looks very unlikely. It's like turning time backwards. Complexity can occur by increasing entropy in other areas but entropy is, as far as we know, inexorable.


I concur. Maybe that's why reverse time-travel is said to be impossible. You can't put the cause ahead of the effect, can you?


Who? Me? I never tried.



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28 Jan 2009, 8:39 am

Orwell wrote:

I am a determinist, but that doesn't mean I feel all warm and fuzzy about the universe going cold and dead.



Not to worry. You, I, and everyone else will be cold and dead long before the cosmos is cold and dead. Somehow I don't think you would enjoy living long enough to see The End.

ruveyn



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28 Jan 2009, 1:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Orwell wrote:

I am a determinist, but that doesn't mean I feel all warm and fuzzy about the universe going cold and dead.



Not to worry. You, I, and everyone else will be cold and dead long before the cosmos is cold and dead. Somehow I don't think you would enjoy living long enough to see The End.

ruveyn


It's a matter of taste. I've been around a while but somehow I've gotten attached to being alive. I'd be willing to give it a try.



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28 Jan 2009, 2:13 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Orwell wrote:

I am a determinist, but that doesn't mean I feel all warm and fuzzy about the universe going cold and dead.



Not to worry. You, I, and everyone else will be cold and dead long before the cosmos is cold and dead. Somehow I don't think you would enjoy living long enough to see The End.

ruveyn

Well, obviously I will be dead long before it's an issue, but that still doesn't keep me from feeling said, as Lupov did when he contemplated the matter.


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Sand
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28 Jan 2009, 2:26 pm

Orwell wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Orwell wrote:

I am a determinist, but that doesn't mean I feel all warm and fuzzy about the universe going cold and dead.



Not to worry. You, I, and everyone else will be cold and dead long before the cosmos is cold and dead. Somehow I don't think you would enjoy living long enough to see The End.

ruveyn

Well, obviously I will be dead long before it's an issue, but that still doesn't keep me from feeling said, as Lupov did when he contemplated the matter.


If you get emotional about things dying there are, of course many many current situations to engage your emotions.



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28 Jan 2009, 2:30 pm

Orwell wrote:
Well, obviously I will be dead long before it's an issue, but that still doesn't keep me from feeling said, as Lupov did when he contemplated the matter.

Orwell, your sadness over the end of the world is sort of odd, because isn't heaven supposed to be better than Earth? I dunno, I am just having difficulty reconciling your attitudes with traditional Christian attitudes.



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28 Jan 2009, 2:57 pm

I think I see this in a different direction, what I would find sad is being conscious and aware in the moment of doomsday. But as that is far from happening, I don't see much point to it, nevertheless, natural catastrophes do happen and within our lifetime.

The sadness, what exactly covers? the end of the world (life on earth) or the end of the solar system or the end of the galaxy or the end of the universe or all?


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