Why isn't "Islam Day" September 11th?

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well, I would say that Ragtime is likely beling unfair with Islam as a whole, and practically making a generalization and perhaps subtle equaling Islam = terrorism or something like that.

I hardly know a thing about Islam to be honest, but my perspective on this is the issue of extremists, so yes extremists muslims in the middle east will go as Ragtime suggests, the thing is that I gather that there are different ismalic denominations just as Christianity and as Ragtime's claim of the Qur’an stating to kill and be violent while the Bible isn't, that seems questionable, obviously further research will have to be made rather than taking his word, I mean, I believe scholars on the subject will argue things differing from the simplistic approach Ragtime does with his argument, and given that different denominations exist in Islam, I would say that different interpretations of the Qu'ran may exist, just look at Christianity and how many interpretations of the Bible exist.

Anyway, discussing the issue from a scholarly, profesional and impartial opinions as source for debating looks a lot better rather than what it seems to be really a bit unfair without actually being honestly critical about it.

And that leads to the question, if the religion of Islam is really the way Ragtime suggests, should it be forbidden to follow, or is it nothing more than a personal position and nothing more than that? I mean, will this be stepping with the issue of freedom of religion and a group of people which would be a minority to be stigmatized?

i bet people have tried to explain stuff to you before, so...

ill just redirect you to all the other peoples previous attempts at talking sense to you, in this thread, and probably others

So basically people whose belief systems are shaped by modern scientific analysis have their "heads in the sand"?

Well I don't think something "greater than ourselves" is out of the question (and in fact I think it's fairly likely), but it's a pretty big stretch for people to actually believe that they understand the true nature and desires of whatever higher force/being/whatever it is, solely based on some ancient texts in a language they cannot comprehend that could have been written by anybody, for any purpose.

You do realize that The Bible, as it is translated and interpreted in the "Western World" this day and age, is essentially equivalent to the result of a 2000 year long game of "telephone"...

Switch it off Ragtime!! !

I totally agree with your saying that all Religions are fake and cause so much damages but it's not true that animals only kill for food.
Some species kill other members of the same species, and for the same reasons why humans kill each others: Power, authority ,territories, resources, sex ...etc

Look, I am atheist , ex-Muslim , was raised by a Muslim Shiite family and I am totally aware that Ragtime is a Bible fundie who think that all non-Christian will rot in hell and think that I have serpent seeds in my blood (since the Bible says that Canaanites(Phoenicians) have serpent seeds in their blood and deserve to die and so I am). And I am aware that he sees that bible as 100% pure and true while he sees the other books as 100% evil and false and I am totally aware that he wishes that his holy Israel wipes out my country in order to create the kingdom of Israel , he dislikes me as much I dislike him.

But equaling Islam to a terrorist ideology is not unfair, it's totally true. REAL Islam IS a terrorist ideology. I am not saying that the Torah is much better.

You have to keep in mind that 90% of Muslims do not practice true Islam , only Al-Qaeda and co. practice the true Islam.





That's your problem, post here again only after you learn about Islam.

Most sensible thing I've read in the thread so far.

Was he? It's virtually impossible to tell an actual Christian from a mere religionist from the standpoint of a human observer. And since McVeigh's most famous action was manifestly un-Christian, that casts further doubt any real faith in Jesus, the "Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6), that McVeigh may have had.

But if you want to try, the first step would be to gather and identify the evidence that McVeigh was a Christian. For instance, was he often found studying his Bible, humbly praying to God, giving to the poor, visiting the sick, talking about his love for all mankind, and/or trying to live a pure life?

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)

And Christianity holds us back from what amounts to playing God in this matter, by affirming that God loves and valueseveryone, because He made each person for a specific purpose. But with atheism, we "accidentally" exist, and are thus more expendible, having no inherent -- but, rather, merely circumstantial -- worth.

When the members of society are judged solely by their perceived abilities to contribute to the fabric of society, then able-bodied people are better crippled people. You see the barbarism? We know that able-bodied people are not better than crippled people on the basis of their perceived abilities to contribute to society. But how do we know? Not by any practical or pragmatic measure, but only through a deep belief that each person is inherently sacred, being children of God.

I take someone's word for it if they say they are Christian. To say someone isn't for various reasons is known as the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Its an interesting question, usually in the past I would have given you an immediate QFT on that one but - I'm really starting to wonder about the differences in developmental axioms between atheists and theists. Whar your mentioning may fit for what a raised theist turned atheist later in life may easily come to as a conclusion; but atheists from early childhood - they've been dealing with a steaming mess for reality since childhood so my guess is they have other answers to this one other than because its morally reprehensible (whatever that's supposed to mean from an atheistic context), I'm just not sure what those reconciliations are.

The first time I saw Fox news, my initial thought was "Didn't they cancel Sliders?"...

As with any religion with a big enough book, you can say whatever you want. As we say 'round these parts 'The Devil can quote scripture to suit his purpose'.

The New Testament has a few initial stories about Jesus, then was promptly hijacked by Saul 'aka Paul', in a series of letters 'reinterpreting' Christianity. not to mention the dozens of 'apocrypha' (the Book of Mary, of Jesus, etc), that were 'edited out' by the early Church.

It's said that 'Islam has 73 varieties, and 72 of them will take you to hell' (well, sorta.... There are suras and verses that can be interpreted one way or another.

Making an Islam day on Sept 11 (btw- the attack was scheduled for 9/11 because of something that happened to the Muslims; what, no one seems to remember) would just be bad taste, and foment more fighting around the world.

OP is either a racist douche nozzle or a troll, and my troll senses are tingling!

Actually, claims like this look very much like biased positions against something with no much substantial basis on it but rather correlation, etc, therefore the skepticism towards his claim is actually valid, and my point that scholarly studies towards the issue would be more reliable source of information than a single or a couple of members seeming to show some sort of prejudice relating to the issue in the way of expressing them.


I wonder what makes true Islam being true Islam and what makes true Christianity being true Christianity.

Anyway, could it be socioeconomic, political and cultural factors in some regions of the world to be important factors as well?


Actually I don't see how much problem that would be for me more than it would be for you, given that I am not making any claim for neither defending nor refuting Ragtime claims, rather showing skepticism towards his views regarding Islam, however considering some factors, as I mentioned, different denominations of Islam seems to exist, and it looks that a good number of western muslims would be against terrorism, violence and the extremism from the middle east, therefore, my points given here are valid following these observations, and I am trying to be fair, I am not actually claiming a belief of mine, I'm not claiming certainty of an issue, not either a biased position against or in favor of Islam as a religion but trying to be a bit fair on the issue.


Also, I can post here as I please wether you like it or not, or wether you agree with me or not, I'm free to do so aren't I? heck! you are not a mod so that becomes useless and meaningless, and well, given that some here are annoyed and even irritated by Ragtime's claim, he has the freedom to do so as he pleases, even if what he says sounds ridiculous to some, but as noticed, there are some who seem to agree with him and others who don't, and I wanted to add my own observation on this. I mean, it would be like telling you to not reply to my post if you have missed the point.

I am very saddened by your statements. I was very angered at you at first. But now I see hope. It is important that you be open minded. Next you must do research on Islam, the religion itself. After that please talk to Muslims. You will truly be amazed and wonder why you even thought such things against this religion. I promise you that you will change once you learn. Also, 99% of Muslims are those who only want peace and prosperity. It is simply a few thousands out of a religion with more than 1.3 billion people that are violent. That is less than a fraction of a percent. Those violent beings are not Muslim. They have used a perversion of Islam to further there maligned agendas.

There is much for you to learn. I cannot tell you everything. You must find it yourself. But with motivation and a strivance to learn, you will succeed!