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League_Girl
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04 Feb 2022, 12:33 am

Gaslighting being misused again, it now means "I don't want facts to be taught."

Yeah when my mom told me as a kid that we (white people) took away their (Native Americans) land" I didn't think I had something to do with it. Why? Because i wasn't even born.
I was not gaslit with the fact.


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ASPartOfMe
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04 Feb 2022, 1:33 am

League_Girl wrote:
Gaslighting being misused again, it now means "I don't want facts to be taught."

Yeah when my mom told me as a kid that we (white people) took away their (Native Americans) land" I didn't think I had something to do with it. Why? Because i wasn't even born.
I was not gaslit with the fact.


I am going to assume you are reacting to the article I posted. If not ignore.
Quote:
Another mother, who is Asian-American and lives in California, told The Post the mothers resent being labeled as racist or right-wing or that they are against the teaching of the history of slavery.Among the mothers are several black women.

“Some of us have been the targets of racism ourselves,” she said. “Many of us have experienced discrimination racially in our past. This is not about race and this has nothing to do with the teaching or not teaching about race. We are not redneck racists. We are all humans.”

These are mothers of kids in elite schools. These schools are usually located in purple and blue areas.

The gaslighting referred to is not “We don’t want facts taught” . It refers to to being being told your child is not being taught critical race theory when you see with your own eyes they are being taught the basic principles of it

FYI: My mamma did not teach me white people stole Indians land. I learned about that in school in the ‘60s and ‘70s in a white suburban Republican district.


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04 Feb 2022, 2:46 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
’Undercover Mothers’ reveal how they’re fighting ‘wokeness’ in schools
Quote:
A casual group of moms who got together in secret last summer to discuss what they felt was increasing and alarming “wokeness” in NYC private schools has morphed over the past six months into a stealth guerrilla powerhouse.

The organization has a core of about 25 mother activists who preside over a network of more than a hundred undercover mothers from LA to Texas to Miami. They say they were inspired first by two Ohio mothers, Amy Gonzalez and Andrea Gross, whose kids were expelled from private school in July 2021 after the moms pushed back against critical race theory.

Undercover Mother members also credit former Grace Church teacher Paul Rossi, booted from the classroom after he voiced doubts about the school’s new “woke” curriculum last year as well as Andrew Gutmann, a former Brearley School father who wrote a scathing open letter to the school in 2021, with giving them motivation and courage.

Undercover Mother’s chief weapons are a salty Twitter feed and a hard-hitting and prolific Substack that’s come out with 30 dispatches so far about so-called “anti-racism” and gender and sex education in schools since August 2021.

Sample post titles include: “You Are Being Gaslighted,” “Social Justice Chess,” “Is Math Racist?” “The Cult of Wokeness is Frying Our Children’s Brains” and “It’s All about the $Money$.”

Some Substack posts are brief and include material sent to them anonymously from parents, teachers and school trustees — like a lengthy policy recently enacted at Mt. Sinai school advocating for “gender neutral bathroom facilities.”

“An example of your school’s priorities,” Undercover Mother snapped on Aug. 17. “They are focused on bathroom ‘gendering’ instead of real education.”

The members of Undercover Mother who spoke to The Post identified themselves and their locations but asked that they remain anonymous for fear both they and their children could face retribution. They said they’ve already had to “shed” a few faux-mothers who were trying to infiltrate the group.

“We don’t know who they really were or why they were there but it was clear they were up to no good,” one mother said.

The ultra-secrecy helps the cause, one said.

No one can stop us because they don’t know who we are,” she said.

The mothers of the group communicate almost solely over the encrypted phone app Signal and do not disclose their real last names — even to each other. They’re fighting what they say is a dangerous “wokeness” flooding private schools all over the US and they’ve targeted the powerful NAIS, the National Association of Independent Schools, which they say is driving the ideology.

The Undercover Mother members say they are not affiliated with any outside political organizations or public relations companies.

“We have done a tremendous amount of research and investigative work over the past six months,” a Manhattan-based Undercover Mother told The Post. “This is not just about critical race theory. We aren’t going through book stacks at the school libraries. We believe there are a hierarchy of problems and if you solve the ones at the top, the bottom ones will resolve themselves.”

Their Substack has only 2,500 subscribers at present and their Twitter feed has just over 1,500 followers but four Undercover Mother members told The Post that the number of people who read them anonymously is far greater.

“Many parents are too scared to follow us (on Twitter) because it’s public and they could get in trouble,” one mother from New York said. “Some have asked that we not follow them. It’s the same with the Substack. Many people get it emailed to them from others because they don’t want to be publicly affiliated with us. But we get so many emails from parents telling us what we do is so valuable and that they’re so grateful.”

Another mother, who is Asian-American and lives in California, told The Post the mothers resent being labeled as racist or right-wing or that they are against the teaching of the history of slavery. Among the mothers are several black women.

“Some of us have been the targets of racism ourselves,” she said. “Many of us have experienced discrimination racially in our past. This is not about race and this has nothing to do with the teaching or not teaching about race. We are not redneck racists. We are all humans.”

An Undercover Mother from the West said she noticed a “slow creep” toward a new ideology in her kids’ once “warm, loving” private school beginning in 2016.

One day my fifth grader came home and said, ‘Mom did you know I’m part of the dominant, oppressive majority? Another of my kids came home and said I am the only kid who doesn’t have an identity. My head almost popped off. She’s 12 years old and she was referring to her gender and sexual identity. It was very confusing. She cried. She felt left out because she didn’t have an identity to brag about.”

“My firm would terminate me and I’d probably lose a friend or two if I said out loud what many of us already talk about privately”.

“But the continuous manipulating of facts and gaslighting of our parents must stop…,” the trustee added. “As trustees, we have let the woke mob and the woke agenda determine our direction. We have lost our way. “

Undercover Mother focuses a lot of its wrath on NAIS, a non-profit association of more than 1,900 private schools that was founded in 1962 but has fairly recently begun focusing heavily on so-called “social justice” imperatives and emphasizing all things DEI — diversity, equity and inclusion.

NAIS does not officially dole out all-important accreditations to private schools but it has a strong sway over the regional accrediting bodies, according to many parents who spoke to The Post.

NAIS was founded…. around the time modern western Marxist and extremist philosophers and activists were getting started,” Undercover Mother wrote in a September post titled, “NAIS – An Origin Story.” “NAIS is not an organization that simply is an accrediting body or resource. It has an agenda that it wants to influence and implement nationally. For example, NAIS encourages racially segregating kindergarteners!”


I think there's a typo in the title

It should read "Undercover racist Karens reveal how they are covertly fighting any mention of racism in school"



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04 Feb 2022, 4:26 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Gaslighting being misused again, it now means "I don't want facts to be taught."

Yeah when my mom told me as a kid that we (white people) took away their (Native Americans) land" I didn't think I had something to do with it. Why? Because i wasn't even born.
I was not gaslit with the fact.


I am going to assume you are reacting to the article I posted. If not ignore.
Quote:
Another mother, who is Asian-American and lives in California, told The Post the mothers resent being labeled as racist or right-wing or that they are against the teaching of the history of slavery.Among the mothers are several black women.

“Some of us have been the targets of racism ourselves,” she said. “Many of us have experienced discrimination racially in our past. This is not about race and this has nothing to do with the teaching or not teaching about race. We are not redneck racists. We are all humans.”

These are mothers of kids in elite schools. These schools are usually located in purple and blue areas.

The gaslighting referred to is not “We don’t want facts taught” . It refers to to being being told your child is not being taught critical race theory when you see with your own eyes they are being taught the basic principles of it

FYI: My mamma did not teach me white people stole Indians land. I learned about that in school in the ‘60s and ‘70s in a white suburban Republican district.



I was reacting to this:

Quote:
Undercover Mother’s chief weapons are a salty Twitter feed and a hard-hitting and prolific Substack that’s come out with 30 dispatches so far about so-called “anti-racism” and gender and sex education in schools since August 2021.

Sample post titles include: “You Are Being Gaslighted


Yeah, I see this word thrown around when it comes to these topics.

So anti racism is gas lighting now. Pointing out facts about racism in society is now gas lighting. Critical race theory, gaslighting.

But when I look the actual word up, it means totally something else that does not fit this.

Seems like this term has become weaponized.


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04 Feb 2022, 4:40 am

I read the posted article in link and couldn't make sense out if the conversation between the mom and principal. Does the principal think it's the daughter's perception or is she just lying to the mom to get her to agree?


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04 Feb 2022, 9:46 am

Another thing I do not like about woke politics when it comes to the entertainment industry is how people have appointed themselves the social justice police when they are not a part of the woke characters they are offended by.

For example, Robert Downey Jr. on an interview, said that all the black people he has met loved his role in the movie Tropic Thunder and thought it was hilarious. He then said but non-black people hate it and felt it was racist, even though black people loved it and thought it was funny.

In Looney Tunes, Mexican audiences love Speedy Gonzalez but non-Mexicans think the character is offensive and had the character cancelled so to speak, and Mexican audiences hate this and said they loved the character.

This is a huge problem I have with woke police in entertainment because their attitude is "no no no black people, your'e all wrong' you are supposed to be offended by this because we said so". "No no no Mexicans, you're all wrong, you are supposed to be offended by this because we said so". They have appointed themselves to the woke police and telling other races and cultures of people, other than themselves, what they should be offended by", when it is not the woke police's position to tell others how to think like that.



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04 Feb 2022, 4:43 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I read the posted article in link and couldn't make sense out if the conversation between the mom and principal. Does the principal think it's the daughter's perception or is she just lying to the mom to get her to agree?

The mom thinks her daughter is right and the principal is lying to her. The idea is that mom thinks the principal is being purposefully vague(word salad) to make her wonder if she is imagining things

ironpony wrote:
Another thing I do not like about woke politics when it comes to the entertainment industry is how people have appointed themselves the social justice police when they are not a part of the woke characters they are offended by.

For example, Robert Downey Jr. on an interview, said that all the black people he has met loved his role in the movie Tropic Thunder and thought it was hilarious. He then said but non-black people hate it and felt it was racist, even though black people loved it and thought it was funny.

In Looney Tunes, Mexican audiences love Speedy Gonzalez but non-Mexicans think the character is offensive and had the character cancelled so to speak, and Mexican audiences hate this and said they loved the character.

This is a huge problem I have with woke police in entertainment because their attitude is "no no no black people, your'e all wrong' you are supposed to be offended by this because we said so". "No no no Mexicans, you're all wrong, you are supposed to be offended by this because we said so". They have appointed themselves to the woke police and telling other races and cultures of people, other than themselves, what they should be offended by", when it is not the woke police's position to tell others how to think like that.



A lot of wokes do constantly violate the "nothing for us without us" rule.
Many Latinos say 'Latinx' offends or bothers them.
Quote:
Americans have a hard time pinning us down. We’ve been branded with label after label, each tag trying but failing to sum up in a single word the 60 million of us with Latin American and Caribbean ancestry who’ve made a home here.

In just over half a century, appellations have been applied like stickers. First we were Hispanic, then Latino and, lately, Latinx.

More and more institutions are pushing back against the pressure from small, vocal groups to apply a term of identity that most don’t identify with.

Latinx was becoming an official term on elite college campuses, popular among academics, progressives, young activists and LGBTQ groups who wanted gender-neutral terminology.

When I heard it, my first thought was that it wasn’t Spanish — but that it was pretentious. Many Latinos like myself see the ‘X’ as odd and off-putting because it doesn’t follow the traditional structure of Spanish, making it awkward and difficult to pronounce because in Spanish few words end with two consonants.

In fact, recent national surveys of Hispanics/Latinos show that the term Latinx is highly unpopular. It might have been intended to be more inclusive, but it actually can feel exclusionary to everyday people.

“The reality is there is very little to no support for its use and it’s sort of seen as something used inside the Beltway or in Ivy League tower settings,” said Domingo Garcia, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC), the oldest Latino civil rights organization in America.

“That’s the irony of ‘Latinx’ — it’s supposed to be inclusive but erases a crucial part of Latin American identity and language, and replaces it with an English word,’’ The Miami Herald said in an editorial reacting to the survey.

The political implications are considerable. Democrats, including President Joe Biden, have been deploying the word Latinx, apparently believing that a gender-neutral word that was born among liberal academics and progressive activists would appeal to Latinos.


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04 Feb 2022, 5:31 pm

Quote:
The mom thinks her daughter is right and the principal is lying to her. The idea is that mom thinks the principal is being purposefully vague(word salad) to make her wonder if she is imagining things


Yeah I don't think that is gas lighting. People just want to be victims now so they will gaslight people with gaslightjng.

Gas lighting is an abuse tactic to control someone and make them feel crazy and question themselves. You don't know you are being gas lighted as it happens.

And if someone is being vague, I ask for more details and tell them I do not understand. They might not know I don't have the same information they have.


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04 Feb 2022, 6:55 pm

This is rather simple

1. Manipulative MAGA politicians put false ideas in the heads of parents that the education system is woke

2. Parents are led to believe that schools are teaching CRT resulting in their kids feeling they should be ashamed for being white and falling behind in their classwork because "horrible" teachers are wasting time teaching CRT

3. Parents don't actually bother checking what their kids are learning but just turn up at school board meetings acting like "Karens" accusing the school of teaching their kids CRT

4. In this story the mother believes her daughter and accuses the principal of something but lazily doesn't check or verify,



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04 Feb 2022, 7:31 pm

Practically the mom is gaslighting herself lol. Maybe she is confused because she knows nothing about the system and should do further research and ask the right questions than jumping to victimhood.


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04 Feb 2022, 11:06 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Practically the mom is gaslighting herself lol. Maybe she is confused because she knows nothing about the system and should do further research and ask the right questions than jumping to victimhood.


There is a silver lining to evert grey cloud.

If America ever emerges from this momentary flirtation with cults they should make it mandatory that parents demonstrate familiarity with their children's curriculum in writing before stepping up on a soapbox at school board meetings, At the very least the parents will take more of an active interest in what their children learn in school :lol:



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05 Feb 2022, 10:12 am

League_Girl wrote:
Quote:
The mom thinks her daughter is right and the principal is lying to her. The idea is that mom thinks the principal is being purposefully vague(word salad) to make her wonder if she is imagining things


Yeah I don't think that is gas lighting. People just want to be victims now so they will gaslight people with gaslightjng.

Gas lighting is an abuse tactic to control someone and make them feel crazy and question themselves. You don't know you are being gas lighted as it happens.

And if someone is being vague, I ask for more details and tell them I do not understand. They might not know I don't have the same information they have.


cyberdad wrote:
This is rather simple

1. Manipulative MAGA politicians put false ideas in the heads of parents that the education system is woke

2. Parents are led to believe that schools are teaching CRT resulting in their kids feeling they should be ashamed for being white and falling behind in their classwork because "horrible" teachers are wasting time teaching CRT

3. Parents don't actually bother checking what their kids are learning but just turn up at school board meetings acting like "Karens" accusing the school of teaching their kids CRT

4. In this story the mother believes her daughter and accuses the principal of something but lazily doesn't check or verify,


I think people are more aware of the concept of gaslighting now and thus recognize when people are attempting to do it to them(and think it is being done to them when it is not). On this issue I have seen time after time people saying CRT is not taught in schools which outside of law schools is technically true but there are numerous reports of the basic concepts being taught. Being vague is one gaslighting technique. The most common gaslighting technique to make people think CRT/“anti racism” ideas are not being taught is to say people who are against it are MAGA racist bastards/Karen’s who don’t want history of and current racism taught.

This is consistent with core ideas of what CRT has evolved into. Every white person privileged and thus a racist even though many do not know it. Anti racism training centers on showing white people they are racists and many times do not know that they are racists, delusional, you know crazy.

About the anti CRT parents being snowflake MAGA’s it is probably true in the very red locals that have passed laws that have banned the teaching of “uncomfortable” history. Not much woke teaching going on in those schools I presume. But the article I posted was about parents of kids in elite schools in blue locales such as New York City. That there is truth to the snowflake MAGA narrative and that people should look into themselves to see if there is some prejudice there is what makes this gaslighting technique effective.

Cyberdad is partially true about parents not knowing what is being taught. Prior to the pandemic parents working two jobs and ignoring what their kids are learning was a major thing. But with parents at home due to being unemployed or working at home they had time to check on what their kids were being taught and did not like it.


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05 Feb 2022, 11:07 am

A bit of trivia on the origin of the term "gaslighting." It comes from a 1944 film 'Gaslight: starring Ingrid Bergman. Not to get into a entire synopsis of the flick, but Bergman's character is being subjected to an intentional effort to make her believe she was losing her mind.


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05 Feb 2022, 12:10 pm

Quote:
Being vague is one gaslighting technique. The most common gaslighting technique to make people think CRT/“anti racism” ideas are not being taught is to say people who are against it are MAGA racist bastards/Karen’s who don’t want history of and current racism taught.


Why would anyone be against it though if they are not racist? What wrong with learning about the current racism in our system today?

It's not gaslighting when people say they are MAGAs or Karens because there is no reason to be against CRT being taught.

Quote:
Being vague is one gaslighting technique.


I would say it depends on the situation and who is doing it. But I never feel crazy if something is too vague, it just means I don't have enough information and I need to ask the right questions to get more information. I do this to my husband and when I finally get a direct answer I tell him "Thank you, that was all you needed to tell me" and he will say "I didn't know you didn't know" so the issue here is he assumed so he wasn't being vague on purpose.

Quote:
I think people are more aware of the concept of gaslighting now and thus recognize when people are attempting to do it to them(and think it is being done to them when it is not)


Honestly I think they are just using it as a weapon to shut down the discussion or to win the argument. If they can make you believe they think they are being gaslighted by you, you will stop talking to them. Or they are just using it wrong. I have even seen parents think children are gaslighting them now and that is insane and these kids are toddlers FFS. But I have also seen it being used for humor as a way to make fun of narcissistic parents who victimize themselves and pretend their kid is abusing them when what they are doing is just normal child development.

Gaslighting is intentional behavior and a way to control someone. If someone thinks I am gaslighting them because I have a dissenting opinion than they do, they have a serious problem then. And I also find it hilarious when I see people say online that those that believe in conspiracies are gaslighting and I want to say 'That is not what gaslighting is" and if their BS opinion makes you feel like you are going crazy and you are questioning yourself and what you have learned from reading, you have a problem.


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05 Feb 2022, 12:22 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Being vague is one gaslighting technique. The most common gaslighting technique to make people think CRT/“anti racism” ideas are not being taught is to say people who are against it are MAGA racist bastards/Karen’s who don’t want history of and current racism taught.


Why would anyone be against it though if they are not racist? What wrong with learning about the current racism in our system today?

Well, there are two things.

The main thing is that Critical Race Theory basically isn’t taught in schools. When people complain about “critical race theory”, they’re complaining about specific anti-racism lessons that they interpret as being heavy-handed, ineffective, misguided, or counter-productive.

There are lots of people out there who are positioning themselves as experts on racism but who are advancing ideals that reasonable people may well object to. It’s not good enough to say “I’m an expert on racism and the way we cure racism is to get white kids to write apology letters apologising merely for being white”, you have to be right that what you are proposing is both morally just and an effective solution to the problem. So, one can object to school “anti-racism” lessons without being racist if one thinks that the lessons are ineffective or that they do not actually pursue racial justice.

As for actual Critical Race Theory, which generally speaking is something I think far fewer people would find objectionable. But it is also a topic which isn’t suitable for a general curriculum, except perhaps in a passing manner - it is something that should be taught in elective classes to which it is relevant.



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05 Feb 2022, 12:34 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Being vague is one gaslighting technique. The most common gaslighting technique to make people think CRT/“anti racism” ideas are not being taught is to say people who are against it are MAGA racist bastards/Karen’s who don’t want history of and current racism taught.


Why would anyone be against it though if they are not racist? What wrong with learning about the current racism in our system today?

Well, there are two things.

The main thing is that Critical Race Theory basically isn’t taught in schools. When people complain about “critical race theory”, they’re complaining about specific anti-racism lessons that they interpret as being heavy-handed, ineffective, misguided, or counter-productive.

There are lots of people out there who are positioning themselves as experts on racism but who are advancing ideals that reasonable people may well object to. It’s not good enough to say “I’m an expert on racism and the way we cure racism is to get white kids to write apology letters apologising merely for being white”, you have to be right that what you are proposing is both morally just and an effective solution to the problem. So, one can object to school “anti-racism” lessons without being racist if one thinks that the lessons are ineffective or that they do not actually pursue racial justice.

As for actual Critical Race Theory, which generally speaking is something I think far fewer people would find objectionable. But it is also a topic which isn’t suitable for a general curriculum, except perhaps in a passing manner - it is something that should be taught in elective classes to which it is relevant.


Hmm. Disagree.

I live in an EXTREMELY diverse area of Canada and I still think the concept of critical race theory would be beneficial to teach every child in order to start properly levelling the playing field in society in general. I don't think it's a taboo topic that should be avoided. I don't think it should be an elective for only those who choose to learn about it. My assumption is that the ones who would elect to take the course probably already have a baseline level of understanding about it and would thus have the least to gain by learning. I could be wrong, though. Overall I just think that everyone would benefit if everyone were taught things like this vs. ignoring the ~400 year history of racism in North America that continues today in various forms that we just accept as cultural norms and think nothing of (literally) if they don't affect us.


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