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Jakki
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05 Feb 2022, 12:59 pm

Am loving this woke culture , except minor medical staff, at my local VA that are black, seem to like to use the big pro black cultural wokeness to use against , caucasians , I have found , in that they have arbitrarily cancelled my medical appointments after I have travelled quite a ways to be there. And then am informed no supervisor is available, then as a inpatient , was subjected to abuse from a Caucasian male patient the all black medical staff allowed to walk the halls screaming . While they were aware of my stress disorder, and not advise me of when meals were suppose to come, ( all staff that night were black, and seemed subject to the charge nurse)
So was not getting food while hospitalized , Nor was I given my medication at all while I was there. This was a crime, I thought , So I spoke to the male black charge nurse , requesting something be done in the hospital about the screaming man, Their response was , there was nothing they could do. So I asked to speak with the on call doctor.
And was told by the same charge nurse he would not be available till the next day. But the only other black female patient was placed down the hall . Far away from the room this screaming male patient was hanging around, & staying in . Next morning as doctor arrived, I just signed myself out of the hospital due to obvious lack of medical care . So eventually did call the the patients advocates office . And got another black fellow, but I patiently described, what I have here. Never heard back from that office ever again.
The woke culture and the BLM movement from my perspective, has just been a excuse for US black culture to reverse discriminate against other races, whom had nothing to do with their issues . Under all circumstances especially in person, I am not a loud or outspoken person . Initially before this experience was quite the supporter of the BLM movement . Except for destruction of historical monuments . Could support Black lives if they were not in the business of destroying white lives .


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05 Feb 2022, 2:02 pm

None of my schools taught CRT in school and the closest we ever learned about racism was segregation in high school. There was no subject about the Civil war or slavery. My choir teacher did teach some of it in class by telling us about what a song is about we are singing.

My mom knew more than I did because she was the one that told me this stuff and she loves to read so she either taught herself or her school taught it in Wisconsin. She also did live through Jim Crow times and when segregation became outlawed and she was alive when Martin Luther King did his speech and when he was assisinated. She was also pretty woke as a teen because she told me she used to correct her mother on her words like "colored people" because it was the language her mom had grown up with so to her this language was normal.

And I had no idea how bad slavery really was until my thirties until I started watching youtube videos by black people about it than hearing about it from whites. I also saw Huck Finn as an adult and it totally did not sugar coat slavery. I now understood why that book had been banned in schools. Parents didn't want their kids to know what slavery was actually like?


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Jakki
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05 Feb 2022, 2:28 pm

It was a odd situation . About Race growing up . Had read all the info that was presented to me either in written word and or video. And was old enough to understand what I was seeing on the TV and how it applied to racial situations . And knew of lynchings from history . And discrimination , thought how cool it was for Harriet Tubman to do what she had ! .But had little exposure to the black community . So growing up , any person of a different
Skin appearance . Was the same as me, just another child, hopefully looking for a playmate . In my mid teens was exposed to racist teenagers . It was their problem to me , and never saw them engage anyone from a position of hate, only verbalized it . And very strongly. So it alienated a already alienated child.And did not like their company.
But in all this , I had learned early in school how bad hatred of races can be . And did admire, the early activists.
Started to see racism and hatred as bad as potentially murdering someone . But this newer generation of people wanting to blame anyone older, and calling in being woke , has no appreciation of how I am / was taught as a human
. As am older I know so many people in my age group grew up with my same teachings . That it genuinely appears that current generations of black folk are seriously trying to take advantage of a situation . Have grown up around many black professional people in my generation . That it does strike me as the BLM movement is hiding something else. More than trying to take advantage of innocent people , with my experience level ? I respect anyone who is willing to make a effort to improve his lot in a legal manner . :nerdy:
Did not grow up in the South or any place like that, so there could be vastly different points of view.


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The_Walrus
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05 Feb 2022, 3:01 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Being vague is one gaslighting technique. The most common gaslighting technique to make people think CRT/“anti racism” ideas are not being taught is to say people who are against it are MAGA racist bastards/Karen’s who don’t want history of and current racism taught.


Why would anyone be against it though if they are not racist? What wrong with learning about the current racism in our system today?

Well, there are two things.

The main thing is that Critical Race Theory basically isn’t taught in schools. When people complain about “critical race theory”, they’re complaining about specific anti-racism lessons that they interpret as being heavy-handed, ineffective, misguided, or counter-productive.

There are lots of people out there who are positioning themselves as experts on racism but who are advancing ideals that reasonable people may well object to. It’s not good enough to say “I’m an expert on racism and the way we cure racism is to get white kids to write apology letters apologising merely for being white”, you have to be right that what you are proposing is both morally just and an effective solution to the problem. So, one can object to school “anti-racism” lessons without being racist if one thinks that the lessons are ineffective or that they do not actually pursue racial justice.

As for actual Critical Race Theory, which generally speaking is something I think far fewer people would find objectionable. But it is also a topic which isn’t suitable for a general curriculum, except perhaps in a passing manner - it is something that should be taught in elective classes to which it is relevant.


Hmm. Disagree.

I live in an EXTREMELY diverse area of Canada and I still think the concept of critical race theory would be beneficial to teach every child in order to start properly levelling the playing field in society in general. I don't think it's a taboo topic that should be avoided. I don't think it should be an elective for only those who choose to learn about it. My assumption is that the ones who would elect to take the course probably already have a baseline level of understanding about it and would thus have the least to gain by learning. I could be wrong, though. Overall I just think that everyone would benefit if everyone were taught things like this vs. ignoring the ~400 year history of racism in North America that continues today in various forms that we just accept as cultural norms and think nothing of (literally) if they don't affect us.

“Critical race theory” is not synonymous with “teaching about racism”.

You can teach that racism is wrong, that race is a social construct, that ongoing discrimination and the lingering effects of past discrimination negatively impact people. You could even teach that the law has sometimes been used to advance racism. But to me, at least, Critical Race Theory requires a level of engagement beyond that. It involves looking at the complex ways that race affects our lives. I don’t think classrooms are capable of handling complexity before the age of 16 or so. Teach the building blocks it is based upon, by all means, but children do not engage with thinkers like Douglass or Du Bois.

Some of the things my schools didn’t teach until after they became elective:

- the history of any country except England and its successor states , barring one week of Egypt and six weeks of Ancient Greece

- at secondary level, any philosophies or ethical systems other than Christianity. At primary level we would do the same six weeks on Sikhism, Judaism and Islam every year, but at a pretty superficial level.

- transition metals beyond “iron is magnetic”

- how to use a computer beyond Microsoft Office 2003 and Google

- art theory

- drama theory

- any novels or plays that weren’t English or American (we did, thankfully, encounter a wider variety of poetry)

- political theory

Critical race theory is necessarily complex and analytical, otherwise it isn’t critical. I don’t think generalist classes are capable of engaging with complex topics.



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05 Feb 2022, 6:03 pm

Quote:
Being vague is one gaslighting technique. The most common gaslighting technique to make people think CRT/“anti racism” ideas are not being taught is to say people who are against it are MAGA racist bastards/Karen’s who don’t want history of and current racism taught.


League_Girl wrote:
Why would anyone be against it though if they are not racist? What wrong with learning about the current racism in our system today?

There is nothing wrong with learning about history or what it is. But what CRT or anti-racism has evolved into is the idea that white supremacy is defining feature of the United States and all whites are privileged and thus racist. Defining a race by a negative feature is racist. "Woke education" is an overcorrection to the whitewashing of racism. In other words, being against "anti-racist" is not just a matter of snowflake racists being butt hurt. It might mean they disagree with the 1619 Project or define white people by a negative trait.

League_Girl wrote:
It's not gaslighting when people say they are MAGAs or Karens because there is no reason to be against CRT being taught.

Some of the reasons were listed above, just because you disagree with them does not make them all racists. Putting people who think a certain way into one category is wrong because it is not how humans are. If one wants to be against bigotry one should not use a term that is both racist and sexist such as Karen. I feel sorry for people named Karen (unless they fit the Karen stereotype)


Quote:
Being vague is one gaslighting technique.


League_Girl wrote:
I would say it depends on the situation and who is doing it.

I agree

Quote:
I think people are more aware of the concept of gaslighting now and thus recognize when people are attempting to do it to them(and think it is being done to them when it is not)


League_Girl wrote:
Honestly I think they are just using it as a weapon to shut down the discussion or to win the argument. If they can make you believe they think they are being gaslighted by you, you will stop talking to them. Or they are just using it wrong. I have even seen parents think children are gaslighting them now and that is insane and these kids are toddlers FFS. But I have also seen it being used for humor as a way to make fun of narcissistic parents who victimize themselves and pretend their kid is abusing them when what they are doing is just normal child development.

Yes, toddlers are too young to know how to gaslight.

League_Girl wrote:
Gaslighting is intentional behavior and a way to control someone. If someone thinks I am gaslighting them because I have a dissenting opinion than they do, they have a serious problem then. And I also find it hilarious when I see people say online that those that believe in conspiracies are gaslighting and I want to say 'That is not what gaslighting is" and if their BS opinion makes you feel like you are going crazy and you are questioning yourself and what you have learned from reading, you have a problem.

What I see is a campaign to convince nonracists that they are racists. If you are not racist and keep on reading by "experts" how you really are a racist but can't realize it. That pretty much everything you do, even the most innocuous things you do is an example of perpetuating systematic racism, unless you have a strong constitution and understanding of yourself you are going to believe the accusation.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 05 Feb 2022, 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Walrus
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05 Feb 2022, 6:12 pm

Jakki wrote:
Am loving this woke culture , except minor medical staff, at my local VA that are black, seem to like to use the big pro black cultural wokeness to use against , caucasians , I have found , in that they have arbitrarily cancelled my medical appointments after I have travelled quite a ways to be there. And then am informed no supervisor is available, then as a inpatient , was subjected to abuse from a Caucasian male patient the all black medical staff allowed to walk the halls screaming . While they were aware of my stress disorder, and not advise me of when meals were suppose to come, ( all staff that night were black, and seemed subject to the charge nurse)
So was not getting food while hospitalized , Nor was I given my medication at all while I was there. This was a crime, I thought , So I spoke to the male black charge nurse , requesting something be done in the hospital about the screaming man, Their response was , there was nothing they could do. So I asked to speak with the on call doctor.
And was told by the same charge nurse he would not be available till the next day. But the only other black female patient was placed down the hall . Far away from the room this screaming male patient was hanging around, & staying in . Next morning as doctor arrived, I just signed myself out of the hospital due to obvious lack of medical care . So eventually did call the the patients advocates office . And got another black fellow, but I patiently described, what I have here. Never heard back from that office ever again.
The woke culture and the BLM movement from my perspective, has just been a excuse for US black culture to reverse discriminate against other races, whom had nothing to do with their issues . Under all circumstances especially in person, I am not a loud or outspoken person . Initially before this experience was quite the supporter of the BLM movement . Except for destruction of historical monuments . Could support Black lives if they were not in the business of destroying white lives .

That sounds like a very unpleasant situation, Jakki. It must have been tough.

That being said, I’m not sure what it has to do with wokeness or BLM. It seems like you have jumped to that conclusion because the staff were black. Did any of them mention your race? Surely there was more plausible options than all of them being so racist against you that they wanted to destroy your life?



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05 Feb 2022, 6:30 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
I live in an EXTREMELY diverse area of Canada and I still think the concept of critical race theory would be beneficial to teach every child in order to start properly levelling the playing field in society in general. I don't think it's a taboo topic that should be avoided. I don't think it should be an elective for only those who choose to learn about it. .


That it's required I agree, But how it's delivered is still a matter that should be carefully examined. White kids might benefit from CRT but there's the ever present matter of how they take it in. Actual activity-based programs and cultural exposure are better than dry powerpoint seminars given by teachers.

The major capital cities in Australia (Melbourne and Sydney) are probably as diverse as Canadian cities. However, I do notice in schools there's a phenomenon called "white flight" where parents opt to move their children out of schools that are multicultural. It creates extremely polarised schools in terms of student diversity (for example selective schools in Melbourne are 90% Asian).

Parents of immigrant children are more interested in core subjects/extra curricular activities that prepare their children for medicine, law or engineering degrees. They care little for CRT. If their child has a high paying job then that's all the social status they need or want. None of them care two hoots for BLM or social engineering.



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05 Feb 2022, 6:34 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
The main thing is that Critical Race Theory basically isn’t taught in schools. When people complain about “critical race theory”, they’re complaining about specific anti-racism lessons that they interpret as being heavy-handed, ineffective, misguided, or counter-productive.


I am wondering at what point republican politicians who promote "removing" non-existent CRT from schools should be held to account for spreading lies? banned from social media? that would be a start.

It's absolutely dreadful how a conspiracy concocted in a boardroom of some rebublican thinktank came up with this strategy to scare parents for no other reason than to attract voters.



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06 Feb 2022, 12:31 am

The thing about teaching CRT is what is it for exactly though? Like what part of is going to kids get certain jobs. What jobs require an education in it?



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06 Feb 2022, 12:51 am

ironpony wrote:
The thing about teaching CRT is what is it for exactly though? Like what part of is going to kids get certain jobs. What jobs require an education in it?


I think if its introduced in schools the intention is to improve long term social cohesion rather than give kids a new job.

However cultural intelligence/sensitivity is a desirable trait in many large organisations or companies so it's not a waste of time.



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06 Feb 2022, 1:02 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
The thing about teaching CRT is what is it for exactly though? Like what part of is going to kids get certain jobs. What jobs require an education in it?


I think if its introduced in schools the intention is to improve long term social cohesion rather than give kids a new job.

However cultural intelligence/sensitivity is a desirable trait in many large organisations or companies so it's not a waste of time.


Oh okay. But should schooling be used for social cohesion, rather than concentrate strictly on jobs and careers. I just feel the parents should teach the social cohesion part at home it seems, and leave the schools to just teach things that would benefit careers.



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06 Feb 2022, 1:14 am

ironpony wrote:
I just feel the parents should teach the social cohesion part at home it seems, and leave the schools to just teach things that would benefit careers.


Actually schools teach a number of things that have nothing to do with careers including human relations, sex studies, religious studies, music, sport and various excursions/school camps (the list goes on).



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06 Feb 2022, 1:20 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I just feel the parents should teach the social cohesion part at home it seems, and leave the schools to just teach things that would benefit careers.


Actually schools teach a number of things that have nothing to do with careers including human relations, sex studies, religious studies, music, sport and various excursions/school camps (the list goes on).


Those are good points. What are parents upset about with CRT being taught exactly? In my online research it has said that is has caused some hate and division in schools, if that is the problem?



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06 Feb 2022, 1:24 am

ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I just feel the parents should teach the social cohesion part at home it seems, and leave the schools to just teach things that would benefit careers.


Actually schools teach a number of things that have nothing to do with careers including human relations, sex studies, religious studies, music, sport and various excursions/school camps (the list goes on).


Those are good points. What are parents upset about with CRT being taught exactly? In my online research it has said that is has caused some hate and division in schools, if that is the problem?


According to US Education dept CRT isn't actually taught in school, What these rather desperate parents are now trying to claim is that any mention of civil rights, Martin Luther King in school history class will cause irreparable damage.



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06 Feb 2022, 1:29 am

Oh okay, but why will it cause damage, according to them?



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06 Feb 2022, 2:13 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but why will it cause damage, according to them?


I find it hard to believe white kids would feel "damaged" learning American history?