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Kraichgauer
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24 Nov 2013, 2:17 am

Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
No true Scotsman fallacy.


So you get to define us by the members you choose who represent a definite minority and are out of step with mainstream libertarian thought, and when I complain you call NTS? Do you enjoy being defined by the worst members who call themselves by your various labels?


But don't you do the same thing regarding liberal Democrats?


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LKL
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24 Nov 2013, 3:23 am

Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
No true Scotsman fallacy.


So you get to define us by the members you choose who represent a definite minority and are out of step with mainstream libertarian thought, and when I complain you call NTS? Do you enjoy being defined by the worst members who call themselves by your various labels?

Except that Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan aren't in the minority and don't represent outliers. They represent the face of the movement. We're not exactly talking Wesburo Baptist Church, here.

You might as well define Evangelicals as saints and say that Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell don't really represent that sect of Christianity in any real sense.



Jacoby
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24 Nov 2013, 3:33 am

LKL wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
No true Scotsman fallacy.


So you get to define us by the members you choose who represent a definite minority and are out of step with mainstream libertarian thought, and when I complain you call NTS? Do you enjoy being defined by the worst members who call themselves by your various labels?

Except that Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan aren't in the minority and don't represent outliers. They represent the face of the movement. We're not exactly talking Wesburo Baptist Church, here.

You might as well define Evangelicals as saints and say that Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell don't really represent that sect of Christianity in any real sense.


Paul Ryan is in no way a libertarian



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24 Nov 2013, 4:23 am

Jacoby wrote:
LKL wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
No true Scotsman fallacy.


So you get to define us by the members you choose who represent a definite minority and are out of step with mainstream libertarian thought, and when I complain you call NTS? Do you enjoy being defined by the worst members who call themselves by your various labels?

Except that Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan aren't in the minority and don't represent outliers. They represent the face of the movement. We're not exactly talking Wesburo Baptist Church, here.

You might as well define Evangelicals as saints and say that Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell don't really represent that sect of Christianity in any real sense.


Paul Ryan is in no way a libertarian

No? Who gets to decide who is, and is not, a libertarian, if not the person themselves? That's a little like saying that Stalin wasn't really a communist (which I have heard from communists) or that Andrea Dworkin wasn't really a feminist (which I haven't heard - just that she doesn't represent the mainstream of feminism).
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08 ... rian-chart
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/0 ... 28244.html



ruveyn
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24 Nov 2013, 4:29 am

LKL wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
LKL wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
No true Scotsman fallacy.


So you get to define us by the members you choose who represent a definite minority and are out of step with mainstream libertarian thought, and when I complain you call NTS? Do you enjoy being defined by the worst members who call themselves by your various labels?

Except that Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan aren't in the minority and don't represent outliers. They represent the face of the movement. We're not exactly talking Wesburo Baptist Church, here.

You might as well define Evangelicals as saints and say that Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell don't really represent that sect of Christianity in any real sense.


Paul Ryan is in no way a libertarian

No? Who gets to decide who is, and is not, a libertarian, if not the person themselves? That's a little like saying that Stalin wasn't really a communist (which I have heard from communists) or that Andrea Dworkin wasn't really a feminist (which I haven't heard - just that she doesn't represent the mainstream of feminism).
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08 ... rian-chart
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/0 ... 28244.html


There are some litmus tests for being a libertarian. One such test is whether that person thinks abortions should be regarded as a criminal act and subject to law. Another has to do with drugs (i.e. dope and similar stuff). Libertarians generally oppose any kind of legal restrictions on the consumption and or possession of drugs now restructed under U.S. and State law.

And no righteous libertarian would criminalize the growing of pot.

ruveyn



Jacoby
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24 Nov 2013, 5:06 am

LKL wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
LKL wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
No true Scotsman fallacy.


So you get to define us by the members you choose who represent a definite minority and are out of step with mainstream libertarian thought, and when I complain you call NTS? Do you enjoy being defined by the worst members who call themselves by your various labels?

Except that Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan aren't in the minority and don't represent outliers. They represent the face of the movement. We're not exactly talking Wesburo Baptist Church, here.

You might as well define Evangelicals as saints and say that Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell don't really represent that sect of Christianity in any real sense.


Paul Ryan is in no way a libertarian

No? Who gets to decide who is, and is not, a libertarian, if not the person themselves? That's a little like saying that Stalin wasn't really a communist (which I have heard from communists) or that Andrea Dworkin wasn't really a feminist (which I haven't heard - just that she doesn't represent the mainstream of feminism).
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08 ... rian-chart
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/0 ... 28244.html

Not really.

Paul Ryan is probably the most establishment big government Republican hack there is. Voted for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, the creation of DHS, the creation of the TSA, the Iraq war, the PATRIOT Act, the "Bridge to Nowhere",TARP, the auto bailouts, the AIG bonus tax, and he's one of the main guys on the hill pushing for amnesty right now. His plan that supposedly balances the budget does so in about 30 years and actually increases defense spending.



Kraichgauer
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24 Nov 2013, 11:19 am

Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


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Jacoby
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24 Nov 2013, 11:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.



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24 Nov 2013, 5:36 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.


Then it's only by accident that Romney had picked him as his running mate, rather than to capture the libertarian vote.


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Jacoby
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24 Nov 2013, 10:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.


Then it's only by accident that Romney had picked him as his running mate, rather than to capture the libertarian vote.

Yea... That didn't work.

Paul Ryan is very popular within in the establishment of the party, the Karl Rove and Bill Kristol wing. He is a neoconservative who got hyped up by the Fox News propaganda machine. He is closer to Obama than he is Ron Paul.



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24 Nov 2013, 10:23 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.

Fox News
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1351391938001/
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stoss ... -paul-ryan



Jacoby
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24 Nov 2013, 10:48 pm

LKL wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.

Fox News
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1351391938001/
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stoss ... -paul-ryan

Please read my posts.



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24 Nov 2013, 11:16 pm

It was one sentence. Which part am I missing?



Kraichgauer
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25 Nov 2013, 2:07 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.


Then it's only by accident that Romney had picked him as his running mate, rather than to capture the libertarian vote.

Yea... That didn't work.

Paul Ryan is very popular within in the establishment of the party, the Karl Rove and Bill Kristol wing. He is a neoconservative who got hyped up by the Fox News propaganda machine. He is closer to Obama than he is Ron Paul.


Huh? Obama is a neocon, now?


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Jacoby
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25 Nov 2013, 3:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.


Then it's only by accident that Romney had picked him as his running mate, rather than to capture the libertarian vote.

Yea... That didn't work.

Paul Ryan is very popular within in the establishment of the party, the Karl Rove and Bill Kristol wing. He is a neoconservative who got hyped up by the Fox News propaganda machine. He is closer to Obama than he is Ron Paul.


Huh? Obama is a neocon, now?


Yes, of course.



Kraichgauer
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25 Nov 2013, 3:49 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Whether Ryan is a libertarian or not, the fact is he certainly sells himself as one, and those who have jumped on the libertarian bandwagon - rightly or wrongly - are publicly embracing him.


Maybe in the world of MSNBC and the Daily Kos but no where else.


Then it's only by accident that Romney had picked him as his running mate, rather than to capture the libertarian vote.

Yea... That didn't work.

Paul Ryan is very popular within in the establishment of the party, the Karl Rove and Bill Kristol wing. He is a neoconservative who got hyped up by the Fox News propaganda machine. He is closer to Obama than he is Ron Paul.


Huh? Obama is a neocon, now?


Yes, of course.


I think everyone from President Obama to the neocons would find that hard to believe.


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