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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2022, 6:36 am

^Sheer nonsense!

If Russia succeeds, the idiots will rule the roost.



magz
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08 Apr 2022, 6:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
^Sheer nonsense!

If Russia succeeds, the idiots will rule the roost.

?


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kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2022, 6:56 am

You know what I mean…the guy was attacked on a train for no reason by “patriotic” Russians. Just because he believes in higher ideals.

If Putin (and Trump) succeed, the idiots will rule the roost. The inmates will rule the asylum.



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08 Apr 2022, 6:59 am

Oh, ok.
I somehow connected your "sheer nonsense" to the Nobel Prize lecture and found the concept really chilling.


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kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2022, 7:03 am

That wouldn’t make sense…I would be some sort of crackpot if I made that connection.

You should know me better than that :)

I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed…but I believe in basic decency.

I feel like I’ve been pretty consistent (and persistent) in my denunciation of Russia. To even think I’m “switching sides” would be an absurd thought, bordering on insanity.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 08 Apr 2022, 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2022, 7:22 am

I've had the same ideals since I was around five years old. At 61, I'm not going to all of a sudden change.



magz
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08 Apr 2022, 7:23 am

That's what made me so puzzled.


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08 Apr 2022, 8:59 am

Sometimes my timing is poor , regardless of , whether it is revolent or not , guess, I could have timed it better . :nerdy: thank you .


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ironpony
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08 Apr 2022, 9:12 am

magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But maybe it if those who cared, knew their loved ones lives were on the line, it could perhaps compel them to act against those in power, even more so with more compulsion?
You probably know really little on life of unfree people.


Could you indulge me as to why unfree people could not be motivated to try to spark a revolution?

But also, as for the Ukraine loosing world whide credibility, if they choose not to fight 'fair', in the French/Algerian war, the Algerian did not fight fair when it came to the French, and the world was on their side for independence back then, and helped support it. So why was it more acceptable back then compared to now?



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08 Apr 2022, 9:20 am

ironpony wrote:
magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But maybe it if those who cared, knew their loved ones lives were on the line, it could perhaps compel them to act against those in power, even more so with more compulsion?
You probably know really little on life of unfree people.
Could you indulge me as to why unfree people could not be motivated to spark a revolution? . . .
Have you really never heard of the Stockholm Syndrome?  Look it up sometime.

There is also the phenomenon of oppressors "breaking the spirit" of the oppressed.  Slaves were often whipped, beaten, and otherwise tortured for such 'infractions' as making eye contact with their 'masters', speaking without first being spoken to, standing with their heads unbowed, and even standing in the shadows of their 'masters'.  This treatment served to instill hopelessness in the minds of the oppressed and squash any rebellious thoughts.[/color]



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08 Apr 2022, 9:22 am

Oh okay. So if there is to be any hopes of stopping the war, it has to be completely done from the outside, and no hope from any Russians at all to help?



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08 Apr 2022, 9:25 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. So if there is to be any hopes of stopping the war, it has to be completely done from the outside, and no hope from any Russians at all to help?
I would not count on a Fifth Column inside Russia, as Putin seems to have been thorough in rooting out dissidents.

Why must you begin your replies with "Oh okay"?  It is as if you are dismissing the very post to which you are replying.



magz
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08 Apr 2022, 9:26 am

ironpony wrote:
Could you indulge me as to why unfree people could not be motivated to spark a revolution?
They can, it happened a few times in the history. It requires them to be in great numbers and to organize - and even then, most uprises do fail.
Anyway, no signs of chances for this in Russia right now.

ironpony wrote:
But also, as for the Ukraine loosing world whide credibility, if they choose not to fight 'fair', in the French/Algerian war, the Algerian did not fight fair when it came to the French, and the world was on their side for independence back then, and helped support it. So why was it more acceptable back then compared to now?
Algierians did not receive any substantial international help, AFAIK, only some empty UN declarations.
Ukrainians are asking for weapons. That requires meeting a lot higher threshold. No sane government would send lethal weapons to a state openly violating human rights and conventions on systematic basis.


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ironpony
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08 Apr 2022, 9:30 am

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. So if there is to be any hopes of stopping the war, it has to be completely done from the outside, and no hope from any Russians at all to help?
I would not count on a Fifth Column inside Russia, as Putin seems to have been thorough in rooting out dissidents.

Why must you begin your replies with "Oh okay"?  It is as if you are dismissing the very post to which you are replying.


Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean for it to come off as dismissing, I was just acknowledging, the response. Sorry if I was coming off that way.



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08 Apr 2022, 9:31 am

magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Could you indulge me as to why unfree people could not be motivated to spark a revolution?
They can, it happened a few times in the history. It requires them to be in great numbers and to organize - and even then, most uprises do fail.
Anyway, no signs of chances for this in Russia right now.

ironpony wrote:
But also, as for the Ukraine loosing world whide credibility, if they choose not to fight 'fair', in the French/Algerian war, the Algerian did not fight fair when it came to the French, and the world was on their side for independence back then, and helped support it. So why was it more acceptable back then compared to now?
Algierians did not receive any substantial international help, AFAIK, only some empty UN declarations.
Ukrainians are asking for weapons. That requires meeting a lot higher threshold. No sane government would send lethal weapons to a state openly violating human rights and conventions on systematic basis.


Why don't the people of Russia want to form in a great number to do something like that.



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08 Apr 2022, 9:35 am

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But maybe it if those who cared, knew their loved ones lives were on the line, it could perhaps compel them to act against those in power, even more so with more compulsion?
You probably know really little on life of unfree people.
Could you indulge me as to why unfree people could not be motivated to spark a revolution? . . .
Have you really never heard of the Stockholm Syndrome?  Look it up sometime.

There is also the phenomenon of oppressors "breaking the spirit" of the oppressed.  Slaves were often whipped, beaten, and otherwise tortured for such 'infractions' as making eye contact with their 'masters', speaking without first being spoken to, standing with their heads unbowed, and even standing in the shadows of their 'masters'.  This treatment served to instill hopelessness in the minds of the oppressed and squash any rebellious thoughts.[/color]


There is also quite a degree of support for pootin, in Russia.
Well, before he invaded Ukraine.
Some still dream of the old Soviet Union.

A fairly recent poll suggested pootin had about a 65% approval rating.
No idea what that might be now with his bungled invasion.