If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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pandabear
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07 Sep 2011, 9:40 am

Inuyasha wrote:
cave_canem wrote:
8O How in the freakin' world is it possible that Inuyasha STILL doesn't understand that prisoners DON'T MAKE minimum wage?

He just keeps repeating that they won't see a dollar of what they make, it would all go the victims... ad naseum...

And, as thrilling as his math skills are (multiplying $6 * 40 hrs/week * 4 weeks/month), he still doesn't get it.

As pandabear pointed out, the victim would be lucky to see $32 a month. Here in Canada, that would be about 1 and half cans of powdered baby formula. WOW, lucky mother. Yep, that's almost enough to pay for day care... 8O

Also, FYI, mothers don't have time to sit around on the couch all day waiting for their welfare checks to come in. In our hypothetical scenario, she would have a baby to look after, which is a very difficult job. Not that Inuyasha respects how difficult it is. I guess it's just a "minor inconvenience" for 18 years or so.


Are you all on crack or something?

I'm being completely serious.


I said that the money should be going to the mother and the kid (or father and kid if the rapist was a woman), that means no deductions on the room and board, the rapist doesn't see 1 dime of that money.

Facts, truth, liberals care not for these things.


:roll:

And you still have the gall to wonder why normal people have such a low opinion of "Conservatives."



Inuyasha
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07 Sep 2011, 1:22 pm

number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
cave_canem wrote:
8O How in the freakin' world is it possible that Inuyasha STILL doesn't understand that prisoners DON'T MAKE minimum wage?

He just keeps repeating that they won't see a dollar of what they make, it would all go the victims... ad naseum...

And, as thrilling as his math skills are (multiplying $6 * 40 hrs/week * 4 weeks/month), he still doesn't get it.

As pandabear pointed out, the victim would be lucky to see $32 a month. Here in Canada, that would be about 1 and half cans of powdered baby formula. WOW, lucky mother. Yep, that's almost enough to pay for day care... 8O

Also, FYI, mothers don't have time to sit around on the couch all day waiting for their welfare checks to come in. In our hypothetical scenario, she would have a baby to look after, which is a very difficult job. Not that Inuyasha respects how difficult it is. I guess it's just a "minor inconvenience" for 18 years or so.


Are you all on crack or something?

I'm being completely serious.


I said that the money should be going to the mother and the kid (or father and kid if the rapist was a woman), that means no deductions on the room and board, the rapist doesn't see 1 dime of that money.

Facts, truth, liberals care not for these things.


The average prison wage is less than $1/hour before any deductions whatsoever. That doesn't even cover diapers. You are blatantly ignoring facts again.

I'm also still wondering about your opinion of a knocked-up 13 year old girl. Should she be forced with the choice of either carrying the baby to term or seeking the services of an illegal butcher?


Who said I'm talking about continuing the playing games about the wages? I'm saying the money should be going to the rape victim and the kid not this song and dance routine of oh they don't get minimum wage cause of deductions for being in prison. The money going to the rape victim and the kid should be standard minimum wage * number of hours worked by rapist per week (which should be a minimum of 40), I'm not proposing the that legal system should be playing games trying to weasel out of paying money that should be going to the victim.

I am not proposing welfare, I am proposing that the rapist is being forced to pay child support, like any other parent in a divorce situation.



number5
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07 Sep 2011, 1:53 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
cave_canem wrote:
8O How in the freakin' world is it possible that Inuyasha STILL doesn't understand that prisoners DON'T MAKE minimum wage?

He just keeps repeating that they won't see a dollar of what they make, it would all go the victims... ad naseum...

And, as thrilling as his math skills are (multiplying $6 * 40 hrs/week * 4 weeks/month), he still doesn't get it.

As pandabear pointed out, the victim would be lucky to see $32 a month. Here in Canada, that would be about 1 and half cans of powdered baby formula. WOW, lucky mother. Yep, that's almost enough to pay for day care... 8O

Also, FYI, mothers don't have time to sit around on the couch all day waiting for their welfare checks to come in. In our hypothetical scenario, she would have a baby to look after, which is a very difficult job. Not that Inuyasha respects how difficult it is. I guess it's just a "minor inconvenience" for 18 years or so.


Are you all on crack or something?

I'm being completely serious.


I said that the money should be going to the mother and the kid (or father and kid if the rapist was a woman), that means no deductions on the room and board, the rapist doesn't see 1 dime of that money.

Facts, truth, liberals care not for these things.


The average prison wage is less than $1/hour before any deductions whatsoever. That doesn't even cover diapers. You are blatantly ignoring facts again.

I'm also still wondering about your opinion of a knocked-up 13 year old girl. Should she be forced with the choice of either carrying the baby to term or seeking the services of an illegal butcher?


Who said I'm talking about continuing the playing games about the wages? I'm saying the money should be going to the rape victim and the kid not this song and dance routine of oh they don't get minimum wage cause of deductions for being in prison. The money going to the rape victim and the kid should be standard minimum wage * number of hours worked by rapist per week (which should be a minimum of 40), I'm not proposing the that legal system should be playing games trying to weasel out of paying money that should be going to the victim.

I am not proposing welfare, I am proposing that the rapist is being forced to pay child support, like any other parent in a divorce situation.


Amazing. You're still misunderstanding prison wages completely. Deductions do not factor in. A prisoner's total earned wages amount to, on average, less than $1/hour. Standard minimum wage does not apply to prisoners. In fact. most prisons have a maximum wage set at around $1.15/hour, with most prisoners earning around $.40/hour or so. If you'd like to argue for a massive overhaul of the prison work system, then by all means, make another thread. For now, please work within the current restraints of reality. Even if a woman was to receive total wages from a prisoner earning the maximum wage (which probably takes many, many years to earn), it still wouldn't even come close to covering basic childcare expenses.



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07 Sep 2011, 2:27 pm

number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
cave_canem wrote:
8O How in the freakin' world is it possible that Inuyasha STILL doesn't understand that prisoners DON'T MAKE minimum wage?

He just keeps repeating that they won't see a dollar of what they make, it would all go the victims... ad naseum...

And, as thrilling as his math skills are (multiplying $6 * 40 hrs/week * 4 weeks/month), he still doesn't get it.

As pandabear pointed out, the victim would be lucky to see $32 a month. Here in Canada, that would be about 1 and half cans of powdered baby formula. WOW, lucky mother. Yep, that's almost enough to pay for day care... 8O

Also, FYI, mothers don't have time to sit around on the couch all day waiting for their welfare checks to come in. In our hypothetical scenario, she would have a baby to look after, which is a very difficult job. Not that Inuyasha respects how difficult it is. I guess it's just a "minor inconvenience" for 18 years or so.


Are you all on crack or something?

I'm being completely serious.


I said that the money should be going to the mother and the kid (or father and kid if the rapist was a woman), that means no deductions on the room and board, the rapist doesn't see 1 dime of that money.

Facts, truth, liberals care not for these things.


The average prison wage is less than $1/hour before any deductions whatsoever. That doesn't even cover diapers. You are blatantly ignoring facts again.

I'm also still wondering about your opinion of a knocked-up 13 year old girl. Should she be forced with the choice of either carrying the baby to term or seeking the services of an illegal butcher?


Who said I'm talking about continuing the playing games about the wages? I'm saying the money should be going to the rape victim and the kid not this song and dance routine of oh they don't get minimum wage cause of deductions for being in prison. The money going to the rape victim and the kid should be standard minimum wage * number of hours worked by rapist per week (which should be a minimum of 40), I'm not proposing the that legal system should be playing games trying to weasel out of paying money that should be going to the victim.

I am not proposing welfare, I am proposing that the rapist is being forced to pay child support, like any other parent in a divorce situation.


Amazing. You're still misunderstanding prison wages completely. Deductions do not factor in. A prisoner's total earned wages amount to, on average, less than $1/hour. Standard minimum wage does not apply to prisoners. In fact. most prisons have a maximum wage set at around $1.15/hour, with most prisoners earning around $.40/hour or so. If you'd like to argue for a massive overhaul of the prison work system, then by all means, make another thread. For now, please work within the current restraints of reality. Even if a woman was to receive total wages from a prisoner earning the maximum wage (which probably takes many, many years to earn), it still wouldn't even come close to covering basic childcare expenses.


I'm saying that the wage should be pushed up to minimum wage, and the money goes to the rape victim and the child, the rapist never sees a dime of it.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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07 Sep 2011, 2:39 pm

Inuyasha, your obsession with what a rape victim should do is a bit odd.

Just sayin'.


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07 Sep 2011, 2:59 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
I'm saying that the wage should be pushed up to minimum wage, and the money goes to the rape victim and the child, the rapist never sees a dime of it.


Well, I will grant you that penal servitude is permitted under the thirteenth amendment.

But why stop at rapists? After all, prison labour is a very large trade subsidy--probably second only to agricultural subsidies. Who ever said that the United States believes in free trade?


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07 Sep 2011, 3:09 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I'm saying that the wage should be pushed up to minimum wage, and the money goes to the rape victim and the child, the rapist never sees a dime of it.


Well, I will grant you that penal servitude is permitted under the thirteenth amendment.

But why stop at rapists? After all, prison labour is a very large trade subsidy--probably second only to agricultural subsidies. Who ever said that the United States believes in free trade?


Because the rapists is responsible for the victim's situation and the child's situation, and raising a child is expensive and an expense (assuming she/he decides not to give the kid up for adoption), and we already have it in the law that parents often have to pay child support anyways. Why should a rapist be allowed to get out of paying child support?

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Inuyasha, your obsession with what a rape victim should do is a bit odd.

Just sayin'.


Cause I have a cousin whom was a victim of statutory rape, and she ended up having a kid. The kid isn't a monster, he looks nothing like the scumbag that raped her. I'm really glad that a guy she knew from high school ended up marrying her finally and he and the kid get along well.

Whenever people start preaching about abortion should be allowed for this and that, it's like saying that that my cousin's son shouldn't have been allowed to exist.

I wish that scumbag had been prosecuted and/or neutered, however the fact the kid's dad is a scumbag doesn't mean the kid is a scumbag.



Last edited by Inuyasha on 07 Sep 2011, 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pandabear
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07 Sep 2011, 3:17 pm

Suppose the rapist isn't caught? Who is going to pony up the $35 per month that the rape victim would otherwise receive?



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07 Sep 2011, 3:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I'm saying that the wage should be pushed up to minimum wage, and the money goes to the rape victim and the child, the rapist never sees a dime of it.


Well, I will grant you that penal servitude is permitted under the thirteenth amendment.

But why stop at rapists? After all, prison labour is a very large trade subsidy--probably second only to agricultural subsidies. Who ever said that the United States believes in free trade?


Because the rapists is responsible for the victim's situation and the child's situation, and raising a child is expensive and an expense (assuming she/he decides not to give the kid up for adoption), and we already have it in the law that parents often have to pay child support anyways. Why should a rapist be allowed to get out of paying child support?


Their are financial repercussions for most crimes. If a thief robs a bank and gets thrown in prison, should his or her wage be raised to meet his debt incurred due to his or her crime? Arguing for standard minimum wage in prisons is really fringe left-wing thinking (most lefties I know, including myself, wouldn't even go for this one). Who pays for prisoner's wages? Think this one out. Under our current unemployment situation, don't you think a stable, paying job is bit too much incentive for the millions of desperate unemployed Americans?

In any case, this argument is completely moot. Minimum wage does not apply to prisoners, period. It's very unlikely to do so any time in the near future, so again, please play within the constraints of reality.

And I'm still left wondering about a child who needs an abortion...



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07 Sep 2011, 3:40 pm

number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I'm saying that the wage should be pushed up to minimum wage, and the money goes to the rape victim and the child, the rapist never sees a dime of it.


Well, I will grant you that penal servitude is permitted under the thirteenth amendment.

But why stop at rapists? After all, prison labour is a very large trade subsidy--probably second only to agricultural subsidies. Who ever said that the United States believes in free trade?


Because the rapists is responsible for the victim's situation and the child's situation, and raising a child is expensive and an expense (assuming she/he decides not to give the kid up for adoption), and we already have it in the law that parents often have to pay child support anyways. Why should a rapist be allowed to get out of paying child support?


Their are financial repercussions for most crimes. If a thief robs a bank and gets thrown in prison, should his or her wage be raised to meet his debt incurred due to his or her crime? Arguing for standard minimum wage in prisons is really fringe left-wing thinking (most lefties I know, including myself, wouldn't even go for this one). Who pays for prisoner's wages? Think this one out. Under our current unemployment situation, don't you think a stable, paying job is bit too much incentive for the millions of desperate unemployed Americans?


Last I checked, people didn't get license plates for their cars for free. Again the other prisoners working might not be getting minimum wage, but at least they're getting some money, I'm saying the rapist doesn't get anything.

A thief steals money from a bank, yes that should be punished, however money being stolen isn't a recurring expense, and child support for people that follow the law isn't a onetime repayment, it is monthly expense.

number5 wrote:
In any case, this argument is completely moot. Minimum wage does not apply to prisoners, period. It's very unlikely to do so any time in the near future, so again, please play within the constraints of reality.


I didn't say the prisoner is getting minimum wage, the money is going to his victims not to him.

number5 wrote:
And I'm still left wondering about a child who needs an abortion...


If you're talking about the 13 year old example, you do realize that is statutory rape unless the person she had sex with is about the same age or younger. Shouldn't the authorities in that situation be notified? Also the 13 year old example could potentially fall under extreme health threat to mother, and not just oh I don't want the kid.



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07 Sep 2011, 3:45 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this sounds like a lot of social workers and infra-structure.
who is gunna pay for all this government?


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07 Sep 2011, 3:47 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this sounds like a lot of social workers and infra-structure.
who is gunna pay for all this government?


All I see is that the prison is making sure money is going to the rape victim and not to the rapist. That isn't any new welfare program.



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07 Sep 2011, 3:48 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

If you're talking about the 13 year old example, you do realize that is statutory rape unless the person she had sex with is about the same age or younger. Shouldn't the authorities in that situation be notified? Also the 13 year old example could potentially fall under extreme health threat to mother, and not just oh I don't want the kid.


So then you would approve of her seeking out a safe and legal abortion?



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07 Sep 2011, 3:50 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this sounds like a lot of social workers and infra-structure.
who is gunna pay for all this government?


All I see is that the prison is making sure money is going to the rape victim and not to the rapist. That isn't any new welfare program.


^ Still ignoring the fact that prison wages don't even pay for diapers.



Inuyasha
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07 Sep 2011, 3:59 pm

number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

If you're talking about the 13 year old example, you do realize that is statutory rape unless the person she had sex with is about the same age or younger. Shouldn't the authorities in that situation be notified? Also the 13 year old example could potentially fall under extreme health threat to mother, and not just oh I don't want the kid.


So then you would approve of her seeking out a safe and legal abortion?


I said I would want law enforcement contacted. If we're at the point where there is brain activity (48 days after conception) then it will have to be a wait and see situation and it would have to be a decision in conjunction with a physician that would have no financial interest in recommending an abortion.

A situation like that is extreme health danger, and last I heard, that's only about 1 to 2% of Abortions.



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07 Sep 2011, 4:17 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

If you're talking about the 13 year old example, you do realize that is statutory rape unless the person she had sex with is about the same age or younger. Shouldn't the authorities in that situation be notified? Also the 13 year old example could potentially fall under extreme health threat to mother, and not just oh I don't want the kid.


So then you would approve of her seeking out a safe and legal abortion?


I said I would want law enforcement contacted. If we're at the point where there is brain activity (48 days after conception) then it will have to be a wait and see situation and it would have to be a decision in conjunction with a physician that would have no financial interest in recommending an abortion.

A situation like that is extreme health danger, and last I heard, that's only about 1 to 2% of Abortions.


So we need a lot of government involvement to make this work.
Social workers, Cops, etc we would need someone to run it.
I wonder what Gertrud Scholtz-Klink is doing now.


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