Reply personal responsibility is a crock: here is why

Page 50 of 51 [ 801 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 47, 48, 49, 50, 51  Next

Hollywood_Guy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Nov 2017
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,283
Location: US

04 Apr 2022, 7:19 pm

Libertarianism doesn't represent equality of outcome. Everyone has equality of free opportunity. While history of certain groups and how much balance there should be between lassiez-faire and government interventions is a debate, the two are not equivalent. There is also an argument that substantial egalitarianism actually makes things worse.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

04 Apr 2022, 7:38 pm

I don't agree that is so.

I don't believe people have "equality of opportunity."

Some people have "less opportunity" than others.

I have less opportunity than someone born with a silver spoon in his/her mouth-----but more opportunity than someone who was raised in a shack, and had to drop out of high school to get income for his/her family.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,762
Location: the island of defective toy santas

05 Apr 2022, 2:09 am

methinks AngelRho has lived more in his lifetime so far [presumably he's early middle age] than i could think of living in 5 lifetimes.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

05 Apr 2022, 7:12 am

auntblabby wrote:
methinks AngelRho has lived more in his lifetime so far [presumably he's early middle age] than i could think of living in 5 lifetimes.

Let’s see…12 years of being bullied in school, half of college I’d prefer to forget, 6 years with a horrible girlfriend…

Two years in upstate NY that were absolute heaven…

5 years of teaching that was mostly hell, 2 months homeless, almost lost my wife in childbirth, crazy preacher’s wife calling social workers on us, wife got physically removed from church once…

4 wonderful kids…and all the drama that comes with it!

Leaving the Mississippi Delta…

2 miscarriages…

And learning when it’s time to pack up and move while living like gypsies.

Accepting that EVERYTHING on this existential plane is temporary and learning to appreciate the precious sweetness of life while you have it…we are all ultimately broken, but we are never homeless as long as we have an earth to walk on. Parents come and go but we are never orphans. We are drowning in beauty if only we bother to open our eyes enough to see it.

Yeah, I’ve been around a little. 8)



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

05 Apr 2022, 7:29 am

I haven't had it as rough as you----but I've had it a little rough at times.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

05 Apr 2022, 11:37 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I haven't had it as rough as you----but I've had it a little rough at times.

Everybody experiences things...good and bad. Sure, it's been a tough life.

But I will say this--I've learned that people make life the most difficult for you when you're on the right track. If building and growing were easy, it wouldn't really be worth doing. You accept nice things like positions of power, you use your time and energy to create, and as long as you are dependent on someone else you make sure you keep an eye on all the exits. Especially keep a close eye on revolving doors; they exist for a reason. It takes time, but you have every reason to ultimately expect to find success.

The girls that rejected me in high school...where are they now? Living boring, unfulfilled lives, mostly. My ex who'd been miserable all those years we were together? Get this: She hosted a lingerie/sex toy party, and when she emailed out the invites she accidentally put high school students on the list. People who I thought were my friends who abandoned me when I really could have used some kind words? They've just vanished into security. An old friend of mine suddenly ghosted me, blocked me on social media, etc., like I'm some dangerous lunatic. We haven't shared two words in as many decades and you're giving me the creepy stalker treatment? WOW! The bullies? Exactly what have THEY done that's meaningful in life? Well, they play it safe and keep their jobs; I play it safe, I get called into the principal's office. So, I mean, it doesn't matter what I do, I'm going to get criticized no matter what. My safety and job security are always a coin toss. If you know you're going to lose your job, there's some comfort in knowing that and feeling free to follow your dreams. Having to conform to someone else's vision and live someone else's life is super boring. Maybe it would be better for my kids if I had a somewhat "normal," bourgeois existence, but then what example am I setting for them if I did and remained satisfied with being unhappy? The MORE you get bullied, the more you get resistance, the more you are opposed, the higher the building, the brighter the painting, the more beautiful the music.

You always get resistance when thing are going right. Any time you create a sculpture out of stone, think of the immense energy that is expended. A block of stone has to be cut from the quarry. That block has to be cut down to a workable size by the sculptor. Then it has to be carved into a primitive shape. Then details have to be carved into it. Then it has to be smoothed and polished. All of those steps require immense effort and time. It's not easy. But in the hands of a master craftsman it is beautiful.

Writing a symphony is super easy. Coaxing your creation out of live musicians is nothing short of working miracles.

Teaching young musicians to play beautiful music? Well, that's well and good if teaching music was all there is too it. But then you try to instill a work ethic into entitled babies, then the mommas are angry because you did your job by expecting excellence. Or you give gentle criticism when these mommas think their high school seniors are perfect. And all you said was, "Great job. I think our intonation could be a little bit better right here, though. What needs to happen to make that sound better?" Oh, I've got some nightmare stories about the last two years! But that's ok...this isn't the right place for me. I've gotten valuable experience that will help me do better next year. I wouldn't have gotten that if I hadn't tried. It's been hard. But I've become a better person--smarter, stronger, more musical. I've given my children experiences they could never have had if we'd stayed in the Delta. It's been worth it.

There are a few things I might be bitter about--I don't understand why that one person who blocked me on social media bothers me so much. It's really strange and perplexing. I don't understand why I'm not respected any better than I am, or why it's so difficult to understand that there are things beyond my control that I get blamed for, except there are envious people who don't want ANYONE in my position to succeed. The failures we're being set up for are justifications for diverting money and fundraising elsewhere. There's nothing I can do beyond what I've already done, and I'm not going to pilot a sinking ship. So yeah...things like that make me angry. But it's all just part of growth. It's all part of the story that's already been written. It's all part of something that's greater than anything I can imagine at this point in time, and I can't wait to see what unfolds next!

Yes, I'd prefer that things be easier for me. Wouldn't we all? But seeing that hardships are often positive signs has made it easier to handle emotionally. I think about every politician elected to president in my lifetime since Reagan and all the hatred that went along with their terms of office. Doesn't matter who you are or your politics. Clinton was a womanizer, everyone knew it, and there were people lined up waiting to see what was going to happen with Monica. The previous Bush came on the heels of Reagan running on the promise of not caving on the issues Reagan had late in his 2nd term...and then CAVED on them--basically trying to continue the Reagan presidency while the rest of the world largely moved on. And then you had a popular Democrat together with a powerful 3rd party candidate that really shifted EVERYTHING back in the 90's. Obama? Holy crap, where do I begin? It's not about me hating Obama, it's just that he was delivering on promises and Republicans NEVER LETTING UP opposing Obamacare. Donald Trump? How about all those "Never Trumper" conservatives coming out of the woodwork to shut him down, to say nothing of obvious Democratic opponents. Biden? Biden is only in as good a political position as he is in right now because he's done...well, not really anything! There's just NOTHING. And I'm so sick and darned tired of hearing about Hunter's laptop. Biden hasn't gotten any resistance from Republicans because there's nothing to resist. Of COURSE he'd get heavy resistance from Republicans if he did anything...that's what political opposition parties do. Always. And Biden is little more than a figurehead in the waning days of COVID pandemic and Ukraine. I can't honestly criticize Biden because there's nothing to criticize. If you're a Trump hater, or a Clinton hater, or a Dubya hater, there's PLENTY to hate. Biden? Nothing. At least with Obama, for a very short time medical care access improved. That left a lasting impression on a corrupt medical community, though, because things aren't NEARLY as bad as they used to be.

And that's because all of these people took risks, gave us things we loved, but plenty of things to hate. In a lot of ways, our lives are better and our country more secure. I look at my own life, with so many people hating me, and for what? Because they can't do the things I do. Because, like all those politicians, I'm an easy target. But look at their successes. Trump has been the biggest, easiest target ever. But Trump remains a billionaire. He's a real estate giant and has been a tremendous media personality. Uuge, even. So, yeah, there's a lot of envy and hatred that goes along with that. You can think he's wrong as much as you like, but he's the one with billions and you're not. I've had a tough life, but it has gotten me a large family, a nice house, a decent job, and awesome prospects for the future. I'm not looking for anyone to feel sorry for me! :lol:

Of course, I throw Trump out there because I know how hated he is. That shouldn't be read as an endorsement. He has to deal with all that hate and one way or another ends up being the winner. Not winner of the White House, obviously, but pols STILL can't stop talking about him and continuing to blame problems on him. He lives rent-free in everyone's heads. And that's something I do find impressive. He's still out there playing golf and traveling the world. He still has friends and admirers and a loving family. Love him or hate him, that's still a pretty big win.

And that's exactly where I want to live--no matter what happens here, today, I still win.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,762
Location: the island of defective toy santas

05 Apr 2022, 7:12 pm

^^^a part of me thinks that if i had your IQ i could do as well as you. another part of me says, "not so fast..."



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,959

05 Apr 2022, 7:34 pm

AngelRho wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I haven't had it as rough as you----but I've had it a little rough at times.

Everybody experiences things...good and bad. Sure, it's been a tough life.

But I will say this--I've learned that people make life the most difficult for you when you're on the right track. If building and growing were easy, it wouldn't really be worth doing. You accept nice things like positions of power, you use your time and energy to create, and as long as you are dependent on someone else you make sure you keep an eye on all the exits. Especially keep a close eye on revolving doors; they exist for a reason. It takes time, but you have every reason to ultimately expect to find success.

The girls that rejected me in high school...where are they now? Living boring, unfulfilled lives, mostly. My ex who'd been miserable all those years we were together? Get this: She hosted a lingerie/sex toy party, and when she emailed out the invites she accidentally put high school students on the list. People who I thought were my friends who abandoned me when I really could have used some kind words? They've just vanished into security. An old friend of mine suddenly ghosted me, blocked me on social media, etc., like I'm some dangerous lunatic. We haven't shared two words in as many decades and you're giving me the creepy stalker treatment? WOW! The bullies? Exactly what have THEY done that's meaningful in life? Well, they play it safe and keep their jobs; I play it safe, I get called into the principal's office. So, I mean, it doesn't matter what I do, I'm going to get criticized no matter what. My safety and job security are always a coin toss. If you know you're going to lose your job, there's some comfort in knowing that and feeling free to follow your dreams. Having to conform to someone else's vision and live someone else's life is super boring. Maybe it would be better for my kids if I had a somewhat "normal," bourgeois existence, but then what example am I setting for them if I did and remained satisfied with being unhappy? The MORE you get bullied, the more you get resistance, the more you are opposed, the higher the building, the brighter the painting, the more beautiful the music.

You always get resistance when thing are going right. Any time you create a sculpture out of stone, think of the immense energy that is expended. A block of stone has to be cut from the quarry. That block has to be cut down to a workable size by the sculptor. Then it has to be carved into a primitive shape. Then details have to be carved into it. Then it has to be smoothed and polished. All of those steps require immense effort and time. It's not easy. But in the hands of a master craftsman it is beautiful.

Writing a symphony is super easy. Coaxing your creation out of live musicians is nothing short of working miracles.

Teaching young musicians to play beautiful music? Well, that's well and good if teaching music was all there is too it. But then you try to instill a work ethic into entitled babies, then the mommas are angry because you did your job by expecting excellence. Or you give gentle criticism when these mommas think their high school seniors are perfect. And all you said was, "Great job. I think our intonation could be a little bit better right here, though. What needs to happen to make that sound better?" Oh, I've got some nightmare stories about the last two years! But that's ok...this isn't the right place for me. I've gotten valuable experience that will help me do better next year. I wouldn't have gotten that if I hadn't tried. It's been hard. But I've become a better person--smarter, stronger, more musical. I've given my children experiences they could never have had if we'd stayed in the Delta. It's been worth it.

There are a few things I might be bitter about--I don't understand why that one person who blocked me on social media bothers me so much. It's really strange and perplexing. I don't understand why I'm not respected any better than I am, or why it's so difficult to understand that there are things beyond my control that I get blamed for, except there are envious people who don't want ANYONE in my position to succeed. The failures we're being set up for are justifications for diverting money and fundraising elsewhere. There's nothing I can do beyond what I've already done, and I'm not going to pilot a sinking ship. So yeah...things like that make me angry. But it's all just part of growth. It's all part of the story that's already been written. It's all part of something that's greater than anything I can imagine at this point in time, and I can't wait to see what unfolds next!

Yes, I'd prefer that things be easier for me. Wouldn't we all? But seeing that hardships are often positive signs has made it easier to handle emotionally. I think about every politician elected to president in my lifetime since Reagan and all the hatred that went along with their terms of office. Doesn't matter who you are or your politics. Clinton was a womanizer, everyone knew it, and there were people lined up waiting to see what was going to happen with Monica. The previous Bush came on the heels of Reagan running on the promise of not caving on the issues Reagan had late in his 2nd term...and then CAVED on them--basically trying to continue the Reagan presidency while the rest of the world largely moved on. And then you had a popular Democrat together with a powerful 3rd party candidate that really shifted EVERYTHING back in the 90's. Obama? Holy crap, where do I begin? It's not about me hating Obama, it's just that he was delivering on promises and Republicans NEVER LETTING UP opposing Obamacare. Donald Trump? How about all those "Never Trumper" conservatives coming out of the woodwork to shut him down, to say nothing of obvious Democratic opponents. Biden? Biden is only in as good a political position as he is in right now because he's done...well, not really anything! There's just NOTHING. And I'm so sick and darned tired of hearing about Hunter's laptop. Biden hasn't gotten any resistance from Republicans because there's nothing to resist. Of COURSE he'd get heavy resistance from Republicans if he did anything...that's what political opposition parties do. Always. And Biden is little more than a figurehead in the waning days of COVID pandemic and Ukraine. I can't honestly criticize Biden because there's nothing to criticize. If you're a Trump hater, or a Clinton hater, or a Dubya hater, there's PLENTY to hate. Biden? Nothing. At least with Obama, for a very short time medical care access improved. That left a lasting impression on a corrupt medical community, though, because things aren't NEARLY as bad as they used to be.

And that's because all of these people took risks, gave us things we loved, but plenty of things to hate. In a lot of ways, our lives are better and our country more secure. I look at my own life, with so many people hating me, and for what? Because they can't do the things I do. Because, like all those politicians, I'm an easy target. But look at their successes. Trump has been the biggest, easiest target ever. But Trump remains a billionaire. He's a real estate giant and has been a tremendous media personality. Uuge, even. So, yeah, there's a lot of envy and hatred that goes along with that. You can think he's wrong as much as you like, but he's the one with billions and you're not. I've had a tough life, but it has gotten me a large family, a nice house, a decent job, and awesome prospects for the future. I'm not looking for anyone to feel sorry for me! :lol:

Of course, I throw Trump out there because I know how hated he is. That shouldn't be read as an endorsement. He has to deal with all that hate and one way or another ends up being the winner. Not winner of the White House, obviously, but pols STILL can't stop talking about him and continuing to blame problems on him. He lives rent-free in everyone's heads. And that's something I do find impressive. He's still out there playing golf and traveling the world. He still has friends and admirers and a loving family. Love him or hate him, that's still a pretty big win.

And that's exactly where I want to live--no matter what happens here, today, I still win.


AngelRho, I have to say that this is really good. I actually sort of see things similarly to you as well on this even though we don't see eye to eye on God, faith and religion. I would say if we met in person I would let's be friends or at least acquaintences and if we're not under a mandatory lock down, isolation, or shelter in place then I would say let's go out to eat and discuss our life experiences with each other.

But, since we can't do that IRL can we do that here?

And, please post more of your music. I love it.



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,959

06 Apr 2022, 7:52 pm

AngelRho, when I envision logically possible this is what I envision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTNsuP2aakk

On a special kind of incline there are certain object(s) that can roll up as you can see on this video like the double sided cone.

She goes in and explains how this is possible. And, there are various people who do this experiment online as well with detailed explanations from them.

It's awesome and does show that existence can be amazing at times.

Now, the problem is you have failed to demonstrate or explain in any kind of way how it is logically possible for any entity, x, simply can exist without cause or be eternal?

If you can't demonstrate it how this idea is logically possible then all you're doing is going by faith. It's like accepting that 2 + 2 = 5 instead of being 4 without explaining how this is so.

And, that is the crux of the Bible in its entirety. Faith that requires one to suspend any kind of reasoning and to accept that certain things as is because "God says so and ordained it" and really it is his followers who say that "God says so and ordained it" and does all of God and Jesus's followers agree upon what every single jot in the Bible even means or what it is supposed to say? We have different denomination and sub denomination who don't agree with everything that this inerrant and perfect book is supposed to say.

Let's not forget different versions of the Bible as well especially the King James one because he didn't agree with what the Catholic Church was doing at the time of what they expected of him.

Doesn't the Bible state that no one is supposed to add or take away from the Bible and there would be consequences for doing so? How many books like the Book of Enoch has been left out especially by Constantine when he first conveyed the council of Nicaea to put the Bible together?

https://www.amazon.com/Missing-Books-Bi ... 154234879X

Two hundred years ago certain books were removed from the Bible. Why was this? Why were these books removed? And, could books have been added and taken away over the time the Bible was first written?



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

06 Apr 2022, 9:31 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho, when I envision logically possible this is what I envision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTNsuP2aakk

On a special kind of incline there are certain object(s) that can roll up as you can see on this video like the double sided cone.

She goes in and explains how this is possible. And, there are various people who do this experiment online as well with detailed explanations from them.

It's awesome and does show that existence can be amazing at times.

Now, the problem is you have failed to demonstrate or explain in any kind of way how it is logically possible for any entity, x, simply can exist without cause or be eternal?

If you can't demonstrate it how this idea is logically possible then all you're doing is going by faith. It's like accepting that 2 + 2 = 5 instead of being 4 without explaining how this is so.

I haven’t failed to do anything. You simply can’t seem to grasp the concept of logical possibility. I’ve explained this on multiple occasions.

2 + 2 = 5 is a metaphor for a person’s willingness to believe something that is clearly false because for the sake of collectivist conformity. It is not enough to simply go along with a lie to appease a party. One must develop the ability to simultaneously hold both contradictory ideas as sincere beliefs.

However, to illustrate the point of logical possibility, is it possible to imagine a universe in which mathematical rules require 2 + 2 = 5? Sure. Things that are not logically possible are things that are inconceivable. Contradictory. 2+2 cannot be simultaneously 4 AND 5 in the same world in the same sense.



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,959

06 Apr 2022, 10:51 pm

Quote:
I haven’t failed to do anything. You simply can’t seem to grasp the concept of logical possibility. I’ve explained this on multiple occasions.


Okay, why have I failed to grasp the concept of this logical possibility? Is it that mind is to filled with sin and pride or is it that I was constructed, created, built, etc in such a way that your version of instruction is way over my head and I can't make heads or tails of it at all? Or, is it that you failed to explain anything at all and simply preached your beliefs at me instead of explaining how you derived your beliefs?

Quote:
2 + 2 = 5 is a metaphor for a person’s willingness to believe something that is clearly false because for the sake of collectivist conformity. It is not enough to simply go along with a lie to appease a party. One must develop the ability to simultaneously hold both contradictory ideas as sincere beliefs.


The point I was making was that metaphorically you keep stating that 2 + 2 = 5 without explaining why this is so and how you get there? It's more along the lines of well, "it simply makes sense", "all things must come from somewhere", "it is the most simplified explanation" or other various things that are extremely wordy but say nothing. And, when I state well it "makes no sense" to me you'll say that "it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you. It makes sense, it it is logical so therefore it is true." These are just paraphrases from our conversations back and forth for multiple posts.

Quote:
However, to illustrate the point of logical possibility, is it possible to imagine a universe in which mathematical rules require 2 + 2 = 5? Sure. Things that are not logically possible are things that are inconceivable. Contradictory. 2+2 cannot be simultaneously 4 AND 5 in the same world in the same sense.


There could be a possible way for something eternal to exist. You probably could use Godel's Incompleteness theorms in some fashion. If God is eternal though then how can God know all there is to know? Wouldn't God be infinitely knowing, understanding and becoming wise?

Can God be truthfully complete and perfect in every way if God is eternal? How would this be so? How can completeness and perfection exist in a state of infinity?

The point is you've demonstrated nothing.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

07 Apr 2022, 7:23 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
I haven’t failed to do anything. You simply can’t seem to grasp the concept of logical possibility. I’ve explained this on multiple occasions.


Okay, why have I failed to grasp the concept of this logical possibility? Is it that mind is to filled with sin and pride or is it that I was constructed, created, built, etc in such a way that your version of instruction is way over my head and I can't make heads or tails of it at all? Or, is it that you failed to explain anything at all and simply preached your beliefs at me instead of explaining how you derived your beliefs?

Quote:
2 + 2 = 5 is a metaphor for a person’s willingness to believe something that is clearly false because for the sake of collectivist conformity. It is not enough to simply go along with a lie to appease a party. One must develop the ability to simultaneously hold both contradictory ideas as sincere beliefs.


The point I was making was that metaphorically you keep stating that 2 + 2 = 5 without explaining why this is so and how you get there? It's more along the lines of well, "it simply makes sense", "all things must come from somewhere", "it is the most simplified explanation" or other various things that are extremely wordy but say nothing. And, when I state well it "makes no sense" to me you'll say that "it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you. It makes sense, it it is logical so therefore it is true." These are just paraphrases from our conversations back and forth for multiple posts.

Quote:
However, to illustrate the point of logical possibility, is it possible to imagine a universe in which mathematical rules require 2 + 2 = 5? Sure. Things that are not logically possible are things that are inconceivable. Contradictory. 2+2 cannot be simultaneously 4 AND 5 in the same world in the same sense.


There could be a possible way for something eternal to exist. You probably could use Godel's Incompleteness theorms in some fashion. If God is eternal though then how can God know all there is to know? Wouldn't God be infinitely knowing, understanding and becoming wise?

Can God be truthfully complete and perfect in every way if God is eternal? How would this be so? How can completeness and perfection exist in a state of infinity?

The point is you've demonstrated nothing.

It isn’t logically possible for God to be both eternal/infinite and incomplete. For something to be logically possible, it either must be known to exist in the actual world or it must be possible to conceive of a world in which is COULD exist. It’s impossible to conceive of ANY world in which something is both infinite and incomplete given that thing is also perfect. God cannot be all-wise or all-knowing if He is in a state of becoming those things. He already is those things. There’s no possible world anyone can imagine this to be so, same as it would be inconceivable to imagine a world using our rules of math to say 2+2=5. For that to work, math itself would have to be reimagined. And if you rework math to be something beyond what we understand to be math, to our way of thinking it ceases to be that according to the Law of Identity, A=A. If you imagine God to be anything but the greatest thing conceivable by the human mind, then what you imagine is not God.

And if that thing you imagine is not God, it is not logically possible to be God. You cannot possibly conceive of or imagine a universe in which that would be true.

The greatest imaginable thing must possess the attributes of being infinite/eternal. To be clear: it is impossible in the physically-bound human mind to understand the concept of infinity since actual infinities do not exist in the physical universe. Space is presumed to be infinite, but infinity by definition means it is impossible to understand an endpoint at which infinity is achieved. Because if you reach the end of infinity, it’s not infinite! But time in our universe is not infinite because it is necessary that the universe as we understand it has a beginning. If time is infinite in our universe, that means the stars are infinitely old. Stars eventually burn out. So if the stars are infinitely old, they’d have burned out a long time ago. And that also means that the space in which all matter in the universe is confined is a finite space. Oh, it’s a huge space. But it’s not infinite space. Just like the best telescopes can detect stars that are so old they likely no longer exist. Since our universe has spacial and temporal boundaries within an infinity (there WAS a time before the universe began, there IS space beyond the boundaries of our physical universe), it is a logical necessity that the greatest being imaginable must exist apart from the known universe of time and space.

Notice I said greatest imaginable. Meaning also greatest possible. I didn’t say greatest ACTUAL, as in it is a logical necessity that such a being must exist. Things that are logically possible, meaning they are imaginable, don’t have to actually exist or have any basis in fact. It’s enough that those things COULD exist, somewhere and/or somewhen. Remember that—it’s important.

The greatest being imaginable by the human mind must be infinite since the human mind cannot conceive of anything greater than infinity. The human mind cannot comprehend what infinity actually IS since infinity by definition is limitless and undefinable using finite terms. So your concept of incompleteness in relationship to God is based on a logical fallacy. You are imposing limits on infinity to say an infinite being cannot be complete. God is complete and completely God—nothing is missing from what makes God who and what He is. But your sense of what makes something complete is flawed since you won’t allow infinite attributes to define the greatest possible being. Infinity itself is undefinable by the human mind, right? You cannot define something that lacks boundaries within which to define it. But it IS possible to understand or define something that possesses undefinable qualities. God by His infinite nature is undefinable in the sense that no infinite being can be defined using that sense of the word “definition”; however, the greatest being imaginable can be described or defined (using a different sense of the word) as possessing indescribable, undefinable qualities.

That’s what it means to be greatest imaginable. And because it is imaginable (but not necessarily ACTUAL), it is logically possible, meaning the human mind can conceive of AT LEAST ONE possible world or universe in which God exists.

Because the greatest imaginable being (God) is infinite, that means He (by definition of “infinite”) exists in ALL possible worlds. If the greatest imaginable being exists in all possible worlds, by definition of “all possible” it means the greatest imaginable being exists in the ACTUAL world—this world.

Except we don’t usually say all that. We just say something/someone exists. :lol: I really just wanted to clarify what logical possibility is since we STILL don’t seem to get it.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,057

07 Apr 2022, 5:47 pm



Back to 'Personal Responsibility' That The "Protestant Work Ethic"
Seems to Take So Seriously, in Ways of Suggesting the Homeless

Person on the Street, Hearing Voices, Seeing Visions, Should Just Pull His
And Her Or Own Boot Straps Up And Get A Job; Not Unlike Saul the Paul;

Perhaps, the Only Identifiable Human That Actually Wrote Words in

That Old Bible We Can Modernly Actually Identify; It's Really

Amazing That The Experience of 'i AM' is Reduced

to A Verse in A Big Black Really

Relatively Small BooK NoW
of Around 800,000 Words

To "Romans 10:9;" Let's Look
It Up Again: KJV Romans 10:9, "That
if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him

from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Even People Who Have Never Entered Churches, At Least
If they Travel 'Down South'; They'll Likely See A Pamphlet

With Flowers on the Front, Attached to A Toilet, Suggesting

There is 'Good News,' Until It Tries to Hook Ya in By

Suggesting if You Don't Say the Magic

Incantation of Romans 10:9,

You Don't Get

Saved And

Burn Forever;
Usually, There is
A Pic of A Mythical Horned
Beast They call the Devil in 'Fiery Embering
Hell' on The Back of the Brochure in Black

Or Red if They Splurged on Colors;

Again That's A "Trump 101 MeMe;"

Lure 'em in With 'Carrots' And 'Whack

Them Over the Head' on 'Fifth Avenue' With
Whatever The Metaphorical Stick of The Day

Then or Now Is; And In This Case, Let 'em Burn

Forever, if They Don't Bow Down And Call An 'Idol

God Man' Their Only Living Savior Who Died Around 2,000 Years
Ago; of Course, Illiterate, Where we Only Have Words Around the
1st Century From Greek Writing Roman Folks, Collecting Up Words From

Oral Tradition

And A Dude Called
Saul the Paul With Visions

Then Yet in this Case,

Not Standing on the

Side of the Road With
A Cardboard Sign With
Empty Pockets Like the Story
Tales of Jesus And His Disciples,
Living off the Kindness of the Village This
Way Just For Bringing A Message of Love For All That Is

Being Do-Gooders of Course too; Hmm, It's a Cool Story Bro

Yet This "Infinite God of Perfection" Could Do A Better Job Than That

At Least if "i Am" is Inhaling Peace, Exhaling LoVE iN JoY oF LiGHT With

Least Harm For All Giving, Sharing, Caring, Healing This Way, Freely Without Restraints,

Where Courage

Of Kindness

'i AM' Does IS A Measure

of True Loving Success As i am Doing Now.

Yes, of Course That is Only One Sect And Way of
Cherry Picking A Book of Mix And Match Scripts of

Free Verse Poetry From Innumerable Ghost Authors
And Changed By Scribes in Mistakes and Intentionally too;

So Let's Go Another Route That Is More Applicable to Personal
Responsibility, Instead of Reciting A 'Magic Incantation' Verse for
A Free Ticket to Ride to Heaven After Death; True, Let's Put the Realism

In Theism, Like i've Been Doing Since 6.6.60, With Luke 17:21, Like the Day

i Was 3, Before i Turned Four to Speak, Early in on the Autism Spectrum in '63, Then

Seeing Clearly Looking Across my Down Town River "Shot-Gun Home" With No Guns;
Yes, Looking Across the 'Blackwater River' To the Forest Clearly Seeing in Our Beautiful
Yard on the River too my Grandmother Made into A Real Garden of Eden Like me And my

Wife Do in

A Beautiful
Forest Here too...

Yes, then, Before i Could
Speak Words; Clear i Am Then And Now,
i AM A Leaf That Feeds the Green of my Tree;

i Am the Leaf That Falls to Soils That Yes Feeds
New Green Souls Forest Whole; Indeed, i Am All

That is ThiS Way Resurrecting in Every Breath i Take New Now

And Then Yes, Let's Do Luke 17:21, Like i Did Before i Even Ever

Heard About a Bible Existing; Again, Where it Says, according to he KJV Version,

Luke 17:21: "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of
God is within you."

Yes, Once Again,

i Am The Leaf

Greening my

Living Tree;

i Am The Leaf

That Falls to Soils

That Greens New Living
Souls Forest Whole; Still Now, i Am...

Yet Let's Not Stop it All at 3 Years Old as

Look Around, Wild Flowers Are a Greater Metaphor

For i Am As They Strive to Color And Shoot Up in Concrete Dead Life;

And Meet their Greatest Potentials in Coloring Life New Now; It's True,

While Wild Flowers May Seem Like Wild Chaos to Those Who Don't Get Down

to Wild Flower Views And See the Beauty of Wild Flower Forests Below, They Miss

the Magic

Above Now

of Yes, Looking

Within And Becoming

All They May Be Now i AM in Unleashing
And Releasing All Their Human Potentials

Within; And True, i Don't Have to Go Over how i've
Accomplished All of this With Effortless 'Wu Wei' Ease in Autotelic
Meditating, Dancing, Singing Flow in 'Blessful Bliss' Either as 'i Am;' Yes,

The Record Speaks Clearly That John 14:12 Is No Myth And Neither

Is A Leaf,
The Tree,
And The Forest,
Still EXPaNDiNG of i AM Now.

Seriously though, If 'God', The 'Infinite
Perfect One' You Describe Is Actually That Way;

THere Ain't No Way That God Would Limit Themselves
to Such A Pathetic Book of Contradictions And Truly Evil

As There is Nothing

Perfect or Love
About Torturing

Any Part of Creation

Forever, Except in the
Eyes of Someone Attached
With A Trump 101 Meme of

True Evil in Psychopathic Ways
of Torturing Any Part of Nature

As That is 'the Stuff' for the Truly
'Criminal' Messed up in the 'Soul' Folks And

OR Folks Who Just BeLiEVE iN What They've
Been Spoon-Fed From Birth; Good News or Really

Evil

News too;
Overall, As Again,

Anyone May Cherry Pick
Free Verse Poetry From Anywhere
And Put Their Own Interpretations
And or Ignorance to 'Work' as THere Are
Always Humans Now, Just Waiting to Follow Someone Else's Story;

The Record is Surely Clear on That in Most Bizarre Ways Through

Human

HiSToRY Now...

In Other Words,
This Ignorance Isn't New
or Restricted to Any One
Category or Label of Being Human Now...

Fascinating to Study Though; Please Pass the Popcorn 'Eve'...

As Now Is A Good Place to Go Back to 'REAL Eden' From this
Only Avatar
Business,

HAhaha

God Yes,

Blue Skies
And Wild
FLoWeRS
STiLL CoLoRinG i AM..:)



_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,959

07 Apr 2022, 7:32 pm

Aghogday, I'm not trying to attack you and if it comes across like I am I do apologize. Will you please do me a favor. I have processing issues when I read text and when I have conversations with people.

Will you please, please put your writings into paragraph format please with spaces between each paragraph? It's extremely difficult to read what you are saying with the current format that you put it into.

The bit I can read is extremely articulate and you come across as a very intelligent and learned person.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

07 Apr 2022, 8:33 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Aghogday, I'm not trying to attack you and if it comes across like I am I do apologize. Will you please do me a favor. I have processing issues when I read text and when I have conversations with people.

Will you please, please put your writings into paragraph format please with spaces between each paragraph? It's extremely difficult to read what you are saying with the current format that you put it into.

The bit I can read is extremely articulate and you come across as a very intelligent and learned person.

Allow me to translate:

Aghogday wrote:
Everything AngelRho says is wrong.


:lol:

(No, I’m not being serious. Aghogday is cool. ) 8)



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,057

07 Apr 2022, 9:26 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Aghogday, I'm not trying to attack you and if it comes across like I am I do apologize. Will you please do me a favor. I have processing issues when I read text and when I have conversations with people.

Will you please, please put your writings into paragraph format please with spaces between each paragraph? It's extremely difficult to read what you are saying with the current format that you put it into.

The bit I can read is extremely articulate and you come across as a very intelligent and learned person.




Thanks For the Input And i Understand; Yes, of Course
Some Folks Have Difficulty With The Way i Write

(You are Surely Not the Only One Here)

'These Days' And Others Do Not;

i Don't See it As An Attack at All;
Yet this is the Way i Process And
Deliver "A SonG oF mY SouL;" And This

Is Just The Natural Way it Flows

Now; So, i Suppose We Both Have
Somewhat of A Communication Issue,

Hehe; i Don't Expect You to Understand
me; Yet This is Just the Way i Communicate Now;

And In Particular, The Activity of Doing it is Inherently
Blissful This Way in Evolving my Soul As my Special Interest Now;

In Other Words,

You Are Asking

A "Bird to Walk;" And That is
No Longer Part of my 'Repertoire'...

i Come Here to Be Free To Express
my Neuro-Divergence; This is A Support Site For That; i Already Tried

'Normal', And That Didn't Come Out to A Very Good Life Result;

This Other Way Maintains Heaven Within Always Now; Not Going

Back to
The 'Other
Place,' No Matter What...

Anyway, Hehe, i Don't Portend to Be 'Normal'...

And in Regard to Who Is Right or Who Is Wrong, i'm Not
in Any Kind of Competition For Winning Debate Points of
Any Kind; i'm Naked, Enough, Whole, And Complete; And

i Commonly Hear Comments From the General Public That
i Am Assessed as A Legend For My Public Dance; i Actually Enjoy

Going Places
Like This
As A Break

From Getting
'Applause' out in
The 'Wild Real World';

i Just Wanted to Dance;
Getting the Privilege to Freely
Do that Every Where i Go; Yes, That Took Quite
A Bit of Effort at First As There Were Many Establishments
Adverse to Someone My Size Dancing Like A Graceful Bull

in A 'Fine China Store'...

Just Being Able to Do Joy Freely

Was/is Enough; The Legend, Hero
And Famous Stuff Can Really

Be A Considerable Distraction

(At One Point, Young Folks
Were Actually Kneeling Down
And Mocking Worship With
Hands Clasped in Prayer;

Ugh, Yes, What an
Uncomfortable Feeling)

if it Happens too Much...

Haha, Thank God i Don't
Have to Worry About that Here...

Just Laser Focusing in Autotelic Flow
in Generating Free Verse Poetry for
Whatever Sparks My Interest And

(Indeed, A Very 'Autistic Way' to Be)

In This Case, it is Generally A Staycation
in Heaven Within Eternally Now And God

Yes Writing Like This For me is A Basic
Requirement to Stay in This Blissful Flow Now...

Hehe, Yes At First, i Had A Lot of Folks Ask me
to 'Walk Normal' in Public, Instead of Freely Dancing
in Spiraling Flow; Took A Year or So Before it Caught on Haha...

Took 7 Years Here,

to Even Get the
Privilige

to Be
Free to
Be Me;

No One Ever Actually
Kicked me Out of A Store

in 'Trump Town USA'; It Goes
to Show, It Hasn't Always Been
A Place for Neuro-Divergence 'Here'...

It Takes A While For Folks to Understand
me; Just Being Able to Be me, is Enough for me,

And

i Am
Going to
Continue
Doing me...

Just Like Others
Here Will Do 'Them' Freely too..:)



_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick