Iran's Getting Ugly

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Amardinerjad? My impression is mixed. I think he also wouldn't be too overt in sucking up, and this goes against his bread and butter strategy.

I think a safe strategy also used by Mugabe with public statement is to blame the UK 'little devil', whilst not specifically condemning the US. Though to be honest even this is fleeting. I think it made sense shortly after the first protest. It was a good way to divert attention. However it has less of an impact as time goes on.

So yes he may do it, but only when it suits him. he has mentione "Obama" suprisingly little compared to "Bush", at least in what I seen.

I salute your optimism but , giving the current circumstances (which would not change anytime soon) , I can't how your cause would prevail unless if there are a major turn in the some factor , but as long most of the clerics support AN, most of the IRG supports AN, most of the army officers support AN, most of the militias support AN and about half (+/-) of your people support AN....then your cause has no chance.

I am just being realistic, I am not trying to put you down.

I'm kinda curious, and it seems like there might actually be some Iranians in this.
We've been told that there's a lot of chanting of 'Death to America' over there. Do they really still do that? The way we see it, nukes would be the perfect way to ensure Death To America. It's your chance to speak out...

"Death to America" is a tradition among the Muslim fundies there and Iran's fundies are no exception , it's the automatic response to any disaster that might happens there.


Earthquake? Death to America!

Political unrest? Death to America!

Wife gives birth to a baby girl?! ! =O Double Death to America!

Isn't it mostly because of some misplaced idea that the western decadence corrupts society and therefore makes al mad?

Well the idea of western material decadence to the point that we are inhuman zombies dates back the formation of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt during the 30s. The idea that the caliphates of old were virtuous is extremist propaganda, caliphates had their fair share of decadence as the history and relics show.

But really this isn't a complete explanation. Politics feeds off something. It is not simply the victimhood the results from failed policy, by the fact that failed policy gives someone else ample ammunition to shine. Undeniably the brash and devious foreign policy of the British and Americans in the region prior to the revolution has given rise to more brash and devious personalities. These people are always there in every society, they just need the opportunity.

Joseph Goebbles once said that if you say anything loud enough and long enough, people will start to believe it.

And they wonder why we're worried about nukes...

If Iran wants us to back off, to stop saying they want to kill us would be a good start...

Just had a wicked thought - We could send Michael Moore over to do a movie to see how many Iranians are still ready to march on Washington...

I know it's a very old thread, but I am sure that you realize now how much of a failure the green revolution was, I see that you live in the US now, I assume that living in Iran has became unbearable?

One word I would like to say to the anti-regime Iranians: Learn from the Arab rebels, from the Libyans, the Egyptians, the Yemenis and even the Syrians. Peaceful demonstrations of cute girls in green with flowers don't do anything to such dictatorships , only one thing can work with such blood-thirty dictators: Fire and steel.

The Iranian regime is having inter-conflicts right now, wouldn't be this the perfect timing to ....? You know what I mean.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 23 Jun 2011, 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I deal with Ruveyn's interests, first and foremost. The Iranians are painting targets on Jews. So I wish them the very worst of luck.

It seems Iran and the Iranians are revolting. Very revolting.

ruveyn

I would have to disagree with you, that we should follow the Arab model, because the previous generations did that 30+ years ago, and look what became of that. They are where Iran was 30 years ago, except that the have what happened to us as a warning to be careful not to end up with the same thing.

A quick violent victory would have brought us nothing, because it was unplanned and it would have been again stolen by some other organized crazy group. Plus like I said if you tried and failed before ( this being Iran't third major attempt for democracy, both other times failed thanks to US and British governments meddling) you'll be more cautious the next time you try. People haven't given up in the least bit, but they are wary because they don't want to pay the price again just to end up with another version of the same thing. Do you know what I mean?

It's not like I'm not wishing that people would revolt and get rid of this whole system, but really I can't tell people to take the risk of prison, torture and death for themselves and their family and loved-ones. It might be easy for you, but I wouldn't "expect" that of anyone if the risk of failure were high. This government is going sooner or later, their train has gone off the tracks a long time ago. I just hope the price to pay isn't too high and the results is actually a secular democratic government this time.

Life is getting near unbearable there; the government is set on ruining the country all together: socially, ethically, economically and culturally. I've only been here for about 4 months, and that's because I married an American guy, and the choice of where to live was rather obvious. But my whole family and my heart is still there. I'm not sure what you were implying there. Because I would not blame anyone if they left their birthplace for dream of a better life. Why should someone suffer all his/her life for an accident of birth?

Ignorance is the worst enemy of the humankind and the main cause of suffering. I'm not being patronizing, I'm ingeniously wishing that you may come out of yours, and so may everyone else(including myself). If you could only understand the ugliness, unfairness and cruelty of what you just said. Do you have any idea what's it like to grow up in a prison where you are deprived of you basic human rights and are mistreated and repressed all your life by the jailers because you happened to have been born there, and yet be hated and discriminated against by those who are free because the jailers commit evil against others too? I have never even wished bad things for those who have harmed me and others, except that they may stop or be stopped from doing so, so please tell me why should I pay the price of other people's crimes?

I might feel safer with a military junta.

Military regimes seem more pragmatic than theocracies to me. I'd take Saddam Hussein over the Tablian any day. Pragmatists want to live and won't usually throw the dice betting on divine intervention to see them through.

You are talking as if Iran's situation was always much better than the Arab world, you are talking as if the Khomenian revolution has brought real democracy to Iran unlike the Arab revolutions 30 years ago that have brought dictators.

You are talking as if Iran is ahead of the whole Arab world by 30 years ... beeuughhh, are you serious? Wake up!

What the Khomenian revolution brought is another kind of dictatorship, the dictatorship of the Shari'a, maybe it brought some voting rights and other forms of democracy but it deprived every kind of social freedom, and that in my opinion, more important than the political democracy. I think that the Khomenian revolution brought more bad than good to Iran.


And you cannot compare the new Arab revolutions with the old Arab revolution or even with the Khomenian revolutions, most of the previous Arab revolutions that you are talking about were organized armed coups d'état (often supported by some foreigner power) where some General/tribe leader/some prick/party overthrows the regime by a military action.

The scenario of the current arab revolution is way different, these are revolution conducted by the people, not by some General or any political entity, these are true popular revolutions and they truly reflect what the people want.

And you can't compare the current Arab spring with the Islamic Revolution in Iran, the Khomenian revolution was more similar with the previous Arab revolutions since it was conducted by a leader and by a particular Islamic movement. Even the main slogans of the Khomenian revolutions were way different the Arab spring revolutions, the main slogans of the Arab spring revolutions are democracy and a secular rule.
Yes, I know that the Islamic brotherhood and other Islamic movements in Egypt and others will gain more power but they won't be able to impose a Sharia rule since they won't be the only rulers, things will be more like the Turkey model than the Iranian model if you understand what I mean, things to real democracy won't be smooth, this is normal, like the French revolution, the revolutions' aftermaths are never smooth and easy.






Sometimes violence is the only way to remove such dictators.

Look at the Yemeni model, the Yemeni demonstrations were peaceful and....huge. Thousands of people hit the streets and we didn't see any signs of violence and arms (except the traditional Yemeni dagger which is an non-separate part of the Yemeni male fashion, it's like their 'code of honor' , but none of the daggers were drawn), yet Saleh didn't get that he's no more wanted and that it's time for him to resign after decades of rule, he instead countered the people by killing them and doing massacres, the peaceful demonstrations didn't stop him to that and no nation was willing to stop him.

Only the bomb stopped him!! And forced him to leave the country. Those Yemeni rebels who did this took the right decision in my opinion, because nothing would stop this murderer from continuing the massacres.


The Libyan rebels also took the right decision by taking the arms because negotiating with Gaddafi is futile, he would kill any breathing Libyan who attempt to negotiate with him, niceness doesn't work with Gaddafi.

Same for the Syrian model, the Syrian demonstrations were very peaceful at first but they were encountered with massacres by the regimes, now some of the rebels are taking arms and have been casualties of both sides, they have realized the fact that niceness and rational demonstrations don't work with the Baath party.






That's why I called Mousavi an idiot earlier in the thread, do you understand now why I called him an irresponsible idiot?





So you no longer able to return to Iran anymore? and how did you meet your husband anyways? lol

I was saying the exact opposite. I was pointing out that because that one failed to bring democracy for the people, now people in Iran are more cautious. And I was saying that the Arab countries after seeing what happened to Iran, won't allow the same thing to happen to them hopefully. Iran's revolution back then, was not an Islamic revolution at all, it got highjacked and stolen by Islamist, they killed all other sections after the revolution was one. Before Khomeini came to power, he was all about there being a secular government and how clerics like him would leave politics alone. He was lying obviously, but by the time people realized it, it was too late. And the US and British government helped him in his ascent to power, because of the fear of the spread of communism back then. Do you now understand what I was trying to say?






Though I admire his courage and relative honesty(compared to most politicians that is ), I have never been a big fan of him, since he's still very much an Islamist. But since he is currently imprisoned and has been so for a while, people may get a chance to move past him, though not throw him away. The one thing he did do, was that he stood by the people, even when their wants and slogans went against his own, and that's why he became so popular really, not for his political views.






I can return If I want to. I haven't registered my marriage with Iran's government, so as far as they're concerned I'm single; my husband is not the type to pretend he's a Muslim just to visit there while these guys are still in power.
I'm unlikely to visit there, unless there's a family emergency or something of the sort, because the trouble is just not worth it.
He found me from here actually, he's a fellow aspie member.