28 Jul 2009, 8:50 pm
29 Jul 2009, 12:28 am
nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
like some twisted parody of an hate site
And you're like a twisted parody of a minority calling hate crime on everything that doesn't fit within your narrow world view. I've been extra careful to always say it's only the leadership that's the problem and not the people because it would be wrong to cast blame on every citizen for the horrible hubris, arrogance and bloodlust of their government. It's unfair.
And for some reason, you strike me as the sort who would be supporting Avigdor Lieberman and his nazi tactics of ethnic purification all in the name of a myth of self-defense.
Not everyone in the world hates Jewish people (despite your paranoia). I love Jewish people and love the culture and all the talented Jewish artists who've enriched my life over the years. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I WILL BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO CONDONE GENOCIDE IN THE NAME OF A COUNTRY WHO THRIVES OFF OF CLAIMING TO BE THE VICTIM ALL THE TIME. I'm not that stupid as to believe such an unbelievable story as that....to be a victim ALL the time and that there have been no concessions that Israel could have made to encourage peace in the region. I've also looked at the various "concessions" made over the years and they're normally little more than an insulting form of lip service that only a poor salesman would try to sell off to a customer who's unhappy with their product. The 2000 Camp David Summit being one of those largely laughable offered "concessions".
but u r that stupid
as i never wrote any of the stuff u accused me of righting
never wrote that Israel is always is the victim pf all time
never wrote that Israeli shouldn't give more concessions
I've tried to convince u and your types on the importance of balanced,informed and as objective view as possible
leaderships on both sides feeds on people like you who doesn't care to learn and look into details and learn
there is no GENOCIDE here and there never was anything even remotely close to it and it is the Libermans like you who makes a bery hard and dangarous situation more difficult and more dangerous by spreading hate based on ignorance and childish narcissism (look at me as i scream genocide,i must have such a beautiful and sensitive heart)
it's not only the leadership problem as the leadership reflects the mental state of the people
the leader is just a common man caricature,stretchered to the extreme,shouting one liner simplistic banalities so people wouldn't have to deal with the complexities of life
much like you
and i never voted for Lieberman
never voted in my life because i do not believe in leadership of any kind
not in the work place
not in the academy
not ever
if u had bothered to read my posts u would know that i have friends in Gaza,which i support, for many years
and that i'm for the dismantling if all settlements
i specifically wrote that i'm willing to give up my on my nationality for peace with the pal's so it doesn't take to much IQ to infer that ppl like me do not vote Liberman
it's a pity i lacked even that little amount
probably because like any extremist u can see only black and white
meaning
anyone who refuses to accept your view of israel as a Nazi like state must be fascist
well u r,and one of the worst kind,u just don't know it yet
I think we both want peace here. And since neither of us are a fan of Lieberman then let's drop that name.
It's a shame you didn't vote. I realize one vote doesn't make much difference but if there are more like you who feel the same way, such a vote toward Livni could have possibly made a difference. Instead Lieberman is now in on the coalition government with Netanyahu...and we both know that's a destructive, dangerous combination to have in power.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8149464.stm
^It's great that they're speaking out and that they can speak out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8168975.stm
^It's not too great that harsh, suppressive tactics are described as "Zionist tactics" in other parts of the Muslim world. It's indicative of how the country is seen and that is a direct consequence of such actions as the recent "war" against Gaza (more of a slaughter than war) and the blockade. And the garbage ceasefire agreements that treat the West Bank and Gaza Strip as one unit still and seemingly does this knowingly because it's fairly obvious that Gaza would never be able to control its citizenry enough to enforce any kind of ceasefire which, in turn, justifies further movement into the West Bank and further use of the blockade and creation of a worse humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip for all the innocent people trapped there.
29 Jul 2009, 1:09 am
29 Jul 2009, 1:23 am
nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
like some twisted parody of an hate site
And you're like a twisted parody of a minority calling hate crime on everything that doesn't fit within your narrow world view. I've been extra careful to always say it's only the leadership that's the problem and not the people because it would be wrong to cast blame on every citizen for the horrible hubris, arrogance and bloodlust of their government. It's unfair.
And for some reason, you strike me as the sort who would be supporting Avigdor Lieberman and his nazi tactics of ethnic purification all in the name of a myth of self-defense.
Not everyone in the world hates Jewish people (despite your paranoia). I love Jewish people and love the culture and all the talented Jewish artists who've enriched my life over the years. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I WILL BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO CONDONE GENOCIDE IN THE NAME OF A COUNTRY WHO THRIVES OFF OF CLAIMING TO BE THE VICTIM ALL THE TIME. I'm not that stupid as to believe such an unbelievable story as that....to be a victim ALL the time and that there have been no concessions that Israel could have made to encourage peace in the region. I've also looked at the various "concessions" made over the years and they're normally little more than an insulting form of lip service that only a poor salesman would try to sell off to a customer who's unhappy with their product. The 2000 Camp David Summit being one of those largely laughable offered "concessions".
but u r that stupid
as i never wrote any of the stuff u accused me of righting
never wrote that Israel is always is the victim pf all time
never wrote that Israeli shouldn't give more concessions
I've tried to convince u and your types on the importance of balanced,informed and as objective view as possible
leaderships on both sides feeds on people like you who doesn't care to learn and look into details and learn
there is no GENOCIDE here and there never was anything even remotely close to it and it is the Libermans like you who makes a bery hard and dangarous situation more difficult and more dangerous by spreading hate based on ignorance and childish narcissism (look at me as i scream genocide,i must have such a beautiful and sensitive heart)
it's not only the leadership problem as the leadership reflects the mental state of the people
the leader is just a common man caricature,stretchered to the extreme,shouting one liner simplistic banalities so people wouldn't have to deal with the complexities of life
much like you
and i never voted for Lieberman
never voted in my life because i do not believe in leadership of any kind
not in the work place
not in the academy
not ever
if u had bothered to read my posts u would know that i have friends in Gaza,which i support, for many years
and that i'm for the dismantling if all settlements
i specifically wrote that i'm willing to give up my on my nationality for peace with the pal's so it doesn't take to much IQ to infer that ppl like me do not vote Liberman
it's a pity i lacked even that little amount
probably because like any extremist u can see only black and white
meaning
anyone who refuses to accept your view of israel as a Nazi like state must be fascist
well u r,and one of the worst kind,u just don't know it yet
I think we both want peace here. And since neither of us are a fan of Lieberman then let's drop that name.
It's a shame you didn't vote. I realize one vote doesn't make much difference but if there are more like you who feel the same way, such a vote toward Livni could have possibly made a difference. Instead Lieberman is now in on the coalition government with Netanyahu...and we both know that's a destructive, dangerous combination to have in power.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8149464.stm
^It's great that they're speaking out and that they can speak out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8168975.stm
^It's not too great that harsh, suppressive tactics are described as "Zionist tactics" in other parts of the Muslim world. It's indicative of how the country is seen and that is a direct consequence of such actions as the recent "war" against Gaza (more of a slaughter than war) and the blockade. And the garbage ceasefire agreements that treat the West Bank and Gaza Strip as one unit still and seemingly does this knowingly because it's fairly obvious that Gaza would never be able to control its citizenry enough to enforce any kind of ceasefire which, in turn, justifies further movement into the West Bank and further use of the blockade and creation of a worse humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip for all the innocent people trapped there.
But there is a ceasefire
the rocketing of Sderot had stopped since the last operation which in some way it is unfortunate as it strengthen the Radical right here as they are the one who are pushing the idea that only brute force will bring results
when i was much younger i voted to Merets or Hadash as they are the one closest to my views but Merets almost gone by know
it is very hard to promote leftist ideas here because any concession bring more violence and only forcefull and violent act bring results
at least it seems that way
we try to convince ppl to think long term and in the long run even ppl like netanyaho and sharon has adopted some of the left ideas but the palestineans must try to do there part also
Gaza and the west bank are not the same as there is no blockade on the west bank and things are getting better there in terms of freedom of movement and self control and standard of living
most Israelis hate the settlers as have no regard for the law and civil rights and they drainening our economy while producing nothing but hate and biolrncr
i don't know how many ppl are aware to the fact that the police and the army clashes with the settlers every day
don't let the number fools u
the settlers are on the way out
Israel can be very efficient when it mind are set
it took only few days to completely erase any Israeli presence in Gaza
Haven''t the ultra-orthodox also been staging some semi-violent protests recently? Sorry but I'm used to associating the settlers with ultra-orthodox ideology and when you said of the settlers clashing with the police and normal citizens, that's the first thing that came to mind.
The numbers don't fool me...Netanyahu saying that the expansion of settlements is a necessary growth due to population booms is what makes me concerned about the settlements. The settlements aren't exactly legitimate under law anyways rather less treating them as Israeli territory that requires expansion as necessitated by the population. The population can move inland to central Israel. There seems to be plenty of unpopulated land within Israel's own borders. And the settlements seem to be simply a case of "the grass is greener here...so it's ours now". Which isn't fair to the West Bankers who used to live in those greener pastures.
And the violent reactions do work in the short term. Problem is Israel is an island in a world of Islam that is cynical toward Israel being any kind of good neighbor and the violent acts may stop such actions from Gaza in the short term but it'll just result in a siphoning in of outsiders wanting to join in and fight the fight. Political loss. It's also a big problem in that...how do you make up and be good neighbors with such a cynical audience? I dunno but I can't imagine firey rhetoric and violent action as any means to quell any insecurities neighbors may have about Israel.
Semi-almost-related question: How would you rate Haaretz? I'm looking to expand my news sources and it seems to be a fairly good news source from within Israel but a local's opinion would be valued.
29 Jul 2009, 1:52 am
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
like some twisted parody of an hate site
And you're like a twisted parody of a minority calling hate crime on everything that doesn't fit within your narrow world view. I've been extra careful to always say it's only the leadership that's the problem and not the people because it would be wrong to cast blame on every citizen for the horrible hubris, arrogance and bloodlust of their government. It's unfair.
And for some reason, you strike me as the sort who would be supporting Avigdor Lieberman and his nazi tactics of ethnic purification all in the name of a myth of self-defense.
Not everyone in the world hates Jewish people (despite your paranoia). I love Jewish people and love the culture and all the talented Jewish artists who've enriched my life over the years. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I WILL BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO CONDONE GENOCIDE IN THE NAME OF A COUNTRY WHO THRIVES OFF OF CLAIMING TO BE THE VICTIM ALL THE TIME. I'm not that stupid as to believe such an unbelievable story as that....to be a victim ALL the time and that there have been no concessions that Israel could have made to encourage peace in the region. I've also looked at the various "concessions" made over the years and they're normally little more than an insulting form of lip service that only a poor salesman would try to sell off to a customer who's unhappy with their product. The 2000 Camp David Summit being one of those largely laughable offered "concessions".
but u r that stupid
as i never wrote any of the stuff u accused me of righting
never wrote that Israel is always is the victim pf all time
never wrote that Israeli shouldn't give more concessions
I've tried to convince u and your types on the importance of balanced,informed and as objective view as possible
leaderships on both sides feeds on people like you who doesn't care to learn and look into details and learn
there is no GENOCIDE here and there never was anything even remotely close to it and it is the Libermans like you who makes a bery hard and dangarous situation more difficult and more dangerous by spreading hate based on ignorance and childish narcissism (look at me as i scream genocide,i must have such a beautiful and sensitive heart)
it's not only the leadership problem as the leadership reflects the mental state of the people
the leader is just a common man caricature,stretchered to the extreme,shouting one liner simplistic banalities so people wouldn't have to deal with the complexities of life
much like you
and i never voted for Lieberman
never voted in my life because i do not believe in leadership of any kind
not in the work place
not in the academy
not ever
if u had bothered to read my posts u would know that i have friends in Gaza,which i support, for many years
and that i'm for the dismantling if all settlements
i specifically wrote that i'm willing to give up my on my nationality for peace with the pal's so it doesn't take to much IQ to infer that ppl like me do not vote Liberman
it's a pity i lacked even that little amount
probably because like any extremist u can see only black and white
meaning
anyone who refuses to accept your view of israel as a Nazi like state must be fascist
well u r,and one of the worst kind,u just don't know it yet
I think we both want peace here. And since neither of us are a fan of Lieberman then let's drop that name.
It's a shame you didn't vote. I realize one vote doesn't make much difference but if there are more like you who feel the same way, such a vote toward Livni could have possibly made a difference. Instead Lieberman is now in on the coalition government with Netanyahu...and we both know that's a destructive, dangerous combination to have in power.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8149464.stm
^It's great that they're speaking out and that they can speak out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8168975.stm
^It's not too great that harsh, suppressive tactics are described as "Zionist tactics" in other parts of the Muslim world. It's indicative of how the country is seen and that is a direct consequence of such actions as the recent "war" against Gaza (more of a slaughter than war) and the blockade. And the garbage ceasefire agreements that treat the West Bank and Gaza Strip as one unit still and seemingly does this knowingly because it's fairly obvious that Gaza would never be able to control its citizenry enough to enforce any kind of ceasefire which, in turn, justifies further movement into the West Bank and further use of the blockade and creation of a worse humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip for all the innocent people trapped there.
But there is a ceasefire
the rocketing of Sderot had stopped since the last operation which in some way it is unfortunate as it strengthen the Radical right here as they are the one who are pushing the idea that only brute force will bring results
when i was much younger i voted to Merets or Hadash as they are the one closest to my views but Merets almost gone by know
it is very hard to promote leftist ideas here because any concession bring more violence and only forcefull and violent act bring results
at least it seems that way
we try to convince ppl to think long term and in the long run even ppl like netanyaho and sharon has adopted some of the left ideas but the palestineans must try to do there part also
Gaza and the west bank are not the same as there is no blockade on the west bank and things are getting better there in terms of freedom of movement and self control and standard of living
most Israelis hate the settlers as have no regard for the law and civil rights and they drainening our economy while producing nothing but hate and biolrncr
i don't know how many ppl are aware to the fact that the police and the army clashes with the settlers every day
don't let the number fools u
the settlers are on the way out
Israel can be very efficient when it mind are set
it took only few days to completely erase any Israeli presence in Gaza
Haven''t the ultra-orthodox also been staging some semi-violent protests recently? Sorry but I'm used to associating the settlers with ultra-orthodox ideology and when you said of the settlers clashing with the police and normal citizens, that's the first thing that came to mind.
The numbers don't fool me...Netanyahu saying that the expansion of settlements is a necessary growth due to population booms is what makes me concerned about the settlements. The settlements aren't exactly legitimate under law anyways rather less treating them as Israeli territory that requires expansion as necessitated by the population. The population can move inland to central Israel. There seems to be plenty of unpopulated land within Israel's own borders. And the settlements seem to be simply a case of "the grass is greener here...so it's ours now". Which isn't fair to the West Bankers who used to live in those greener pastures.
And the violent reactions do work in the short term. Problem is Israel is an island in a world of Islam that is cynical toward Israel being any kind of good neighbor and the violent acts may stop such actions from Gaza in the short term but it'll just result in a siphoning in of outsiders wanting to join in and fight the fight. Political loss. It's also a big problem in that...how do you make up and be good neighbors with such a cynical audience? I dunno but I can't imagine firey rhetoric and violent action as any means to quell any insecurities neighbors may have about Israel.
Semi-almost-related question: How would you rate Haaretz? I'm looking to expand my news sources and it seems to be a fairly good news source from within Israel but a local's opinion would be valued.
You might find the Counterpunch site useful. Frequent articles about the Israeli situation such as http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery07282009.html by Israelis who are cognizant of the history and the current politics are worth attention.
29 Jul 2009, 1:56 am
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
nara44 wrote:
like some twisted parody of an hate site
And you're like a twisted parody of a minority calling hate crime on everything that doesn't fit within your narrow world view. I've been extra careful to always say it's only the leadership that's the problem and not the people because it would be wrong to cast blame on every citizen for the horrible hubris, arrogance and bloodlust of their government. It's unfair.
And for some reason, you strike me as the sort who would be supporting Avigdor Lieberman and his nazi tactics of ethnic purification all in the name of a myth of self-defense.
Not everyone in the world hates Jewish people (despite your paranoia). I love Jewish people and love the culture and all the talented Jewish artists who've enriched my life over the years. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I WILL BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO CONDONE GENOCIDE IN THE NAME OF A COUNTRY WHO THRIVES OFF OF CLAIMING TO BE THE VICTIM ALL THE TIME. I'm not that stupid as to believe such an unbelievable story as that....to be a victim ALL the time and that there have been no concessions that Israel could have made to encourage peace in the region. I've also looked at the various "concessions" made over the years and they're normally little more than an insulting form of lip service that only a poor salesman would try to sell off to a customer who's unhappy with their product. The 2000 Camp David Summit being one of those largely laughable offered "concessions".
but u r that stupid
as i never wrote any of the stuff u accused me of righting
never wrote that Israel is always is the victim pf all time
never wrote that Israeli shouldn't give more concessions
I've tried to convince u and your types on the importance of balanced,informed and as objective view as possible
leaderships on both sides feeds on people like you who doesn't care to learn and look into details and learn
there is no GENOCIDE here and there never was anything even remotely close to it and it is the Libermans like you who makes a bery hard and dangarous situation more difficult and more dangerous by spreading hate based on ignorance and childish narcissism (look at me as i scream genocide,i must have such a beautiful and sensitive heart)
it's not only the leadership problem as the leadership reflects the mental state of the people
the leader is just a common man caricature,stretchered to the extreme,shouting one liner simplistic banalities so people wouldn't have to deal with the complexities of life
much like you
and i never voted for Lieberman
never voted in my life because i do not believe in leadership of any kind
not in the work place
not in the academy
not ever
if u had bothered to read my posts u would know that i have friends in Gaza,which i support, for many years
and that i'm for the dismantling if all settlements
i specifically wrote that i'm willing to give up my on my nationality for peace with the pal's so it doesn't take to much IQ to infer that ppl like me do not vote Liberman
it's a pity i lacked even that little amount
probably because like any extremist u can see only black and white
meaning
anyone who refuses to accept your view of israel as a Nazi like state must be fascist
well u r,and one of the worst kind,u just don't know it yet
I think we both want peace here. And since neither of us are a fan of Lieberman then let's drop that name.
It's a shame you didn't vote. I realize one vote doesn't make much difference but if there are more like you who feel the same way, such a vote toward Livni could have possibly made a difference. Instead Lieberman is now in on the coalition government with Netanyahu...and we both know that's a destructive, dangerous combination to have in power.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8149464.stm
^It's great that they're speaking out and that they can speak out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8168975.stm
^It's not too great that harsh, suppressive tactics are described as "Zionist tactics" in other parts of the Muslim world. It's indicative of how the country is seen and that is a direct consequence of such actions as the recent "war" against Gaza (more of a slaughter than war) and the blockade. And the garbage ceasefire agreements that treat the West Bank and Gaza Strip as one unit still and seemingly does this knowingly because it's fairly obvious that Gaza would never be able to control its citizenry enough to enforce any kind of ceasefire which, in turn, justifies further movement into the West Bank and further use of the blockade and creation of a worse humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip for all the innocent people trapped there.
But there is a ceasefire
the rocketing of Sderot had stopped since the last operation which in some way it is unfortunate as it strengthen the Radical right here as they are the one who are pushing the idea that only brute force will bring results
when i was much younger i voted to Merets or Hadash as they are the one closest to my views but Merets almost gone by know
it is very hard to promote leftist ideas here because any concession bring more violence and only forcefull and violent act bring results
at least it seems that way
we try to convince ppl to think long term and in the long run even ppl like netanyaho and sharon has adopted some of the left ideas but the palestineans must try to do there part also
Gaza and the west bank are not the same as there is no blockade on the west bank and things are getting better there in terms of freedom of movement and self control and standard of living
most Israelis hate the settlers as have no regard for the law and civil rights and they drainening our economy while producing nothing but hate and biolrncr
i don't know how many ppl are aware to the fact that the police and the army clashes with the settlers every day
don't let the number fools u
the settlers are on the way out
Israel can be very efficient when it mind are set
it took only few days to completely erase any Israeli presence in Gaza
Haven''t the ultra-orthodox also been staging some semi-violent protests recently? Sorry but I'm used to associating the settlers with ultra-orthodox ideology and when you said of the settlers clashing with the police and normal citizens, that's the first thing that came to mind.
The numbers don't fool me...Netanyahu saying that the expansion of settlements is a necessary growth due to population booms is what makes me concerned about the settlements. The settlements aren't exactly legitimate under law anyways rather less treating them as Israeli territory that requires expansion as necessitated by the population. The population can move inland to central Israel. There seems to be plenty of unpopulated land within Israel's own borders. And the settlements seem to be simply a case of "the grass is greener here...so it's ours now". Which isn't fair to the West Bankers who used to live in those greener pastures.
And the violent reactions do work in the short term. Problem is Israel is an island in a world of Islam that is cynical toward Israel being any kind of good neighbor and the violent acts may stop such actions from Gaza in the short term but it'll just result in a siphoning in of outsiders wanting to join in and fight the fight. Political loss. It's also a big problem in that...how do you make up and be good neighbors with such a cynical audience? I dunno but I can't imagine firey rhetoric and violent action as any means to quell any insecurities neighbors may have about Israel.
Semi-almost-related question: How would you rate Haaretz? I'm looking to expand my news sources and it seems to be a fairly good news source from within Israel but a local's opinion would be valued.
Haaretz is the best as far as Israeli papers goes
more objective and more attentive to human rights and values than any other news paper here(there are many other sources which are more independent and "radical" and brave such as blogs etc...)
it has corespondent who lives with the Palestinians and the intellectuals here in Israel wouldn't touch any other new paper
it has it faults of course, but....
the ultra-orthodox despises Zionizm even more than u do
their violence is religious based and mostly just anti secular(keeping the Shabat,Family issues...)
the clashes with the settlers is around issues of illegal buildings (i know,it's a joke,every thing illegal,but still..)
violence toward the Palestinians
violence toward the police and the army
violence toward NGO's and reporters
in short
they are just violent bunch of people who engages vary large forces of the army and police
indeed ,the growth issue is just an excuse,
Israel is quite small so members of the family anywhere usually have to leave their birth place and settle somewhere else
it so far out to assume that on the west bank from all places people would be exempt from such neccesity
there is plant of space in Israel
mostly in the desert
but space in an existing communities is very scarce and expansive
most of the settlers are not ideological
they went there because it is much cheaper to build a house there and they would leave as soon as they r offered proper compensations
