Is it anti-semetic....

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Look up Operation Snow White; it may be a lot sooner than you think.

Way to go equating Jews with Scientologists, Brilliant,Anyway i can't see why someone who see Jews as an odd cult or some branch of an established religion is better qualified than me to speak for all Jews id
The state of Israel existence is and was recognized by the international community long time ago,
To keep on debating it right to exist puts under a not so nice label
Besides,
Zionism <> Judaism but as i commented earlier it is just the belief that Jews are entitled to national identity so u may assume it is not part of Jewish id(though the "return to Jerusalem" consists a very big part in Jew culture,religion, and history for thousands of years and I've never heard on any nationalistic sentiments of the Mormons or the Scientologists,
unlike u i'm a tolerant and open minded person and as such feels that any nationalistic sentiments deserves considerations,for instance,that of the Kurds that is being squashed so brutally by the turks for so many years,wonder why their just cause never touched the sensitive souls and bleeding hearts of the international left )
there are many Jews who aren't Zionists and many non Jews who are but if u go on questioning Israel right to exist at this stage your motivation puts u under suspicion not just of being an antisemite
but of being an extremely bad and stupid person.

U have to read it in the context of your previous posts
It takes only few of them to hear the drum that make u march

It’s time to stop demonizing Israel
The flood of hypocrisy and bad faith that seems to have just been waiting across the media worldwide for the Mavi Marmara is by no means acceptable.

By Bernard-Henri Lévy
Of course, my position hasn’t changed. As I said the day it happened, during a fierce debate in Tel Aviv with one of Benjamin Netanyahu’s ministers, I continue to find the manner in which the assault against the Mavi Marmara and its flotilla was effected off the Gaza coast to be “stupid.”


French philosopher Bernard Henri-Levy

If I’d had any remaining doubt, the inspection of the seventh boat − carried out without a trace of violence Saturday morning − would have convinced me there were other ways Israel could have operated to have kept the tactical and PR trap set by the provocateurs of Free Gaza from snapping shut, and with blood spilled.


That said and repeated, the flood of hypocrisy, bad faith and, ultimately, disinformation that seems to have just been waiting for this pretext to flow into the breach and sweep across the media worldwide − as is the case every time the Jewish state slips up and commits an error − is by no means acceptable.

The catchphrase being trotted out ad nauseum refers to the blockade imposed “by Israel.” The most elementary honesty, however, requires one to make clear that this blockade has been undertaken by both Israel and Egypt, conjointly, along the borders of the two countries that share frontiers with Gaza, and with the thinly disguised blessing of all the moderate Arab regimes. Saying the blockade has been imposed by Israel alone can only be described as disinformation. The moderate Arab regimes, of course, are only too happy to have someone else contain the influence of this armed extension, this advanced base and, perhaps one day, this aircraft-carrier of Iran in the region.

The very idea of a “total and merciless” blockade ‏(Laurent Joffrin’s June 5 editorial in the French daily Liberation‏) “taking hostage the humanity [of Gaza]” ‏(former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin in Le Monde on the same date‏) also constitutes disinformation. We mustn’t tire of reminding others: the blockade concerns only arms and the material needed to manufacture them. It does not prevent the daily arrival, via Israel, of between 100 and 120 trucks laden with foodstuffs, medical supplies and humanitarian goods of every kind. Humanity is not “in danger” in Gaza, and it is a lie to state that people are “dying of hunger” in the streets of Gaza City.

It is debatable whether or not a military blockade is the right course of action to weaken and, one day, bring down the fascislamist government of Ismail Haniyeh. But it is an indisputable fact that the Israelis who man the checkpoints between the territories night and day are the first to make the elementary but essential distinction between the regime ‏(that they seek to isolate‏) and the population ‏(which they are careful not to confuse with the regime, and in particular not to penalize as, once again, aid has never stopped passing into Gaza‏).

Disinformation: the utter silence, throughout the world, about Hamas’ incredible attitude now that the flotilla has carried out its symbolic duty − to trap the Jewish state and relaunch, as never before, the process of demonization. In other words, now that the Israelis have carried out their inspection and brought the aid cargo to those for whom it was supposedly intended, Hamas’ attitude in blocking that aid at Kerem Shalom checkpoint, allowing it to slowly rot, is met with silence.

To hell with any merchandise that has passed through the hands of Jewish customs! Chuck out the “toys” that brought tears to the eyes of good European souls, but became impure after spending too many long hours in the Israeli port of Ashdod! Gaza’s children have been used as nothing more than a human shield for the Islamist gang who took power by force three years ago, or cannon fodder or media vignettes. The children’s games or their wishes are the last thing anyone in the Strip worries about, but who says so? Who shows the slightest indignation?

Liberation recently ran an awful headline − “Israel, Pirate State” − which, if words still mean anything, can only contribute to the delegitimization of the Jewish state. Who will dare explain that, if there is a hostage-taker in Gaza, one who coldly and unscrupulously takes advantage of people’s suffering and, in particular, that of the children − in sum, a pirate − it is not Israel but Hamas?

Laughable, but given the strategic context, catastrophic disinformation was clearly seen in the speech given in Konya, in central Turkey, by a prime minister who throws in prison anyone who dares to evoke the genocide of the Armenians in public, but who has the nerve, there, before thousands of fired-up demonstrators yelling anti-Semitic slogans, to denounce Israeli “state terrorism.” Still more disinformation: the lament of the useful idiots who, before Israel did, fell into the clutches of these strange “humanitarians” who, in the case of the Turkish IHH, are Jihad enthusiasts, anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish apocalyptical fanatics, both men and women − some of whom, just days before the incident, expressed their wish to “die as martyrs.” ‏(The Guardian, June 3; Al Aqsa TV, May 30‏).

How can a writer of the calibre of Sweden’s Henning Mankell allow himself to be taken advantage of this way? When he tells us he is thinking of forbidding the translation of his books into Hebrew, how can he really forget the sacrosanct distinction between a stupid or wrong-headed government and the masses of those who do not identify with it? How can a chain of cinemas ‏(Utopia‏) in France decide to cancel the release of a film, “A Cinq heures de Paris,” in the same way, simply because its writer, Leonid Prudovsky, is an Israeli citizen?

Finally, the battalions of Tartuffes who regret that Israel is declining the demand for an international inquiry are disinformers as well. The truth is, once again, much simpler and more logical: What Israel is refusing is an inquiry requested by the UN Human Rights Council, where those great democrats − the Cubans, Pakistanis and Iranians − reign. What Israel does not want is a procedure of the kind that resulted in the famous Goldstone report, commissioned after Operation Cast Lead in Gaza. The five judges on that sympathetic commission − four of whom had never made a secret of their militant anti-Zionism − wrapped up 575 pages of interviews of Palestinian fighters and civilians, conducted under the watchful eye of Hamas political commissioners ‏(an absolute and unprecedented heresy in this kind of work‏), in a matter of mere days.

Such a botched inquiry would amount to a masquerade of international justice, something Israel simply cannot stand for. Its conclusions would be known in advance and would only serve to haul, as usual and perfectly unilaterally, the region’s sole and unique democracy into the defendants’ dock.

One last word. For a man like me, someone who takes pride in having helped to conceive, with others, this kind of symbolic action ‏(the boat for Vietnam; the march for the survival of Cambodia in 1979; various and sundry anti-totalitarian boycotts and, more recently, the deliberate violation of the Sudan border to break the blockade hiding the perpetration of massacres in Darfur‏) − in other words, for a militant of humanitarian interference and all the media fuss that goes with it, this pathetic saga has something of a caricature to it, a gloomy grimace of destiny.

But this is all the more reason not to give in. All the more reason to reject this confusing of genres, this inversion of values. All the more reason to resist this hijacking of meaning, that places the very spirit of a policy conceived to counter the intent of barbarians at their service.

Destitution of the anti-totalitarian dialectic, its imitations and its reversals. Confusion of an era when we combat democracies as if they were dictatorships or fascist states. This maelstrom of hatred and madness is about Israel. But it also concerns, as we should be well aware, some of the most precious things established in the movement of ideas in the last 30 years, especially on the left, and these are thus imperiled. A word to the wise is sufficient.

Translated from the French by Janet Lizop.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/reuters-under-fire-for-removing-weapons-blood-from-images-of-gaza-flotilla-1.294780

Thanks for proving my point.

At least tell me you're opposed to Avigdor Lieberman's stance on the issues.

Missed that - sorry. What can I say - I have Asperger's!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

assuming u have an ADHD of sort (it's ok,there's no shame in that,,many of us AS have that)i'll reiterate what should be quite clear to anyone with average short and long term memory and attention span,
I oppose to most of the Israeli governments stances on most issues, especially the Palestinian issue
I deserted the IDF (and paid dearly) because i wouldn't serve in an army that control civilian populations (u r a desktop hero,i risked my wealth,health,prospects etc.. because i won't take part in a policy that i don't agree with)
I demonstrated as a kid against the Israel occupation of the Territory's won over at 67 and while all u can see is the present moment i'm aware of a longer process that made the right wing in israel slowly adopting and even implementing the left view perception of the situation (Sharon withdraw from Gaza.Begin withdrawal from Sinai,Rabin signing an agreement with Arafat and Jordan...)
I grew up under constant shelling of my Kibbutz(a War crime that as usual went unnoticed because u know why) from the Golan heights still i was for returning it to Syria the day the war ended/
For me all states and nations are abominations,i prefer to live in a stateless world and i'm sure that one day we will,but in order to get that one has to adopt and objective and just and unbiased point of view as possible and yours as far as i'm concerned is very far from that/
I regret the unfair treatment of Israel not because Israel is always right but because such treatment makes it very hard to forces and people who are really interested and needs peace/
I do not expect u to understand but i hope that at least someone on this thread will/

Right. I'm a very bad and stupid person. Hopefully that doesn't dent your concept of Jews as a superior group since my ancestry is Jewish. I'm just one of those bad apples.

I'm not going to hold my breath for a stateless world. It's as if tribalism is part of the human condition - us against them-ism. If it's not what people look like that makes them want to kill each other, it's what they believe.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

U shouldn't hold your breath but as much as tribalism is part of the human condition so does human aspiration to build a better world and history shows that we constantly evolve toward a "flatter" world and identities, believes, and borders are constantly shifting and an objective look at how and why they shift hint at a reality beyond the us against them-ism,
i have no doubt that we are going there,
there's too much hard evidence of a distinct direction toward a more human society,
As to when we get there ?
it may take millions of years but identifying a trend is useful on many levels/

Last edited by nara44 on 08 Jun 2010, 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Again, if u were capable of a even a limited attention or memory u may have already noticed that i don't hold the notion or believe that the Jews are superior group,
And i really don't care if u r a Jew or an Arab or a Japanese,
I don't consider my nationality or ethnic background or my color to be a real part of my identity and never did,
i think that people who play this "game" are missing something very important, beautiful and good in life and also make it hard for other people to live and experience true life/
If u just try to listen for a change instead of constantly putting in my mouth words i have never said or imagine a mindset i never had u might u might have a chance of dialog but i really do not care
it's your problem and u'l have to deal with it ,not me

Don't you know enough not to try to argue with a bad stupid person? We are incapable of reason and good sense and our basic evil nature is totally corrupt. Our viciousness is our pride and joy.

I am not arguing with u
Only uses your stupidity to demonstrate certain points for the benefits of the few who might have a saner point of view/

Delighted to be of use. We idiots rarely find such functional accommodation. It's only those terribly intelligent and dynamic individuals such as yourself who are so shunned by a stupid world and have been persecuted and reviled for their kindness, perception and humanity and capability to provide the sensible solutions necessary for a peaceful and productive world.

Another thing which might be relevant not this topic but to this site is that sometimes i have a feeling that lot of the aspies hardships stem from the fact that they have much weaker "us against them-ism" mentality and consequently a touch time to identify with society and a much stronger identity,
that's why so many of us belongs to the wrong planet.
If u take a detailed look at why aspies r bullied,ignored,neglected,misunderstood,mistreated and why from an NT point of view we live in a bubble u may identify a pattern of identity that is geared toward the acceptance of the "other" to a degree that is disabling in "us against them-ism" based social structure,
So it maybe that my Utopian sentiments are not that far fetched,
For instance,i discovered many years ago that i have much more in common with an aspie from Afghanistan than with my own family ,we may already belong to a tribeless society and that why ae are strangers to the current one/

I am a Jew who is against Zionism, but i have no Problem with Jewish Culture as i am going to Djerba Tunisia, this summer to learn about the Jewish History.