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Which ideology is the best at economics?

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Which group knows economics best?
Conservative (or other center-right ideologies) 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
Liberal (or other center-left ideologies) 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
Socialist (cooperative capitalism, social democracy etc.) 30%  30%  [ 8 ]
Fascist (nationalist or other far right ideologies) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Libertarian (laissez faire on market and social issues) 37%  37%  [ 10 ]
Anarchist/libertarian socialist (non-propertarian, direct democracy) 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 27

Sand
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12 Nov 2010, 1:12 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
psychohist wrote:
Sand wrote:
The free market is a BS fantasy which even a close reading of Adam Smith dismisses. The amount of unwanted and dangerous crap produced by corporations at prices that in no way reflect the cost of production and dumped on an ignorant public disproves the whole nonsensical myth.

The disdain and disgust for the public here demonstrated is appalling and typical of the liberal attitude. In truth, members of the public are not ignorant and are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves which goods are worth buying and which are not.


Such as the quality of fast foods, the "improvements" in medications that are put on the market because they are under patent rather than that they are better than the cheaper ones they replaced, such as salmonella infected meat that is shipped out by the ton and then recalled because government has discovered the infection, such as toys and baby equipment that is pulled off the market because of lead content or badly designed to be lethal to infants? I suppose after you have lost a kid or two you can wise up.



I say, Old Chap. What great inventions has Finland produced lately?

At least the Swiss invented the Coo Coo Clock. What have the Finns done of late?

ruveyn


It's not wise to display your ignorance so blatantly. Go quietly and look it up. You seem moderately capable with a computer.



ruveyn
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12 Nov 2010, 1:14 am

[quote="Sand"

It's not wise to display your ignorance so blatantly. Go quietly and look it up. You seem moderately capable with a computer.[/quote]

I know of one very thin book: the compiled biographies of Finnish Nobel Lauriates.

ruveyn



Orwell
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12 Nov 2010, 2:10 am

sartresue wrote:
Orwell wrote:
sartresue wrote:
How can wise food choices lead to obesity? A visual like a food guide or pyramid helps a person to decide better nurtitional choices. It can be more expensive than eating at McD's, but this is the problem: Cheap eats, super sized, available 24/7. Add inactivity, boredom and stress and you have the recipe for obesity. No surprise there.

McD's isn't even cheap. I can go to my local grocery store and eat cheaper (and better) than you ever could at McDonald's. I can even get real beef, instead of whatever the hell is in a Big Mac.


Food politics topic

I know what you mean. I can buy the raw ingredients for a good nurtitious meal rather inexpensively, but for many, eating a hot meal, already cooked, for under five dollars that is ready tickety-boo and supersized full of fill-up but ycuky fries is their way of false economy. For an already overweight person, who would not find a salad filling, even an order of large fries with gravy is more of a meal. I know the logic is flawed, but they prefer this to a box of kraft dinner, the only cheap homemade food many are familiar with, and many of these people do not know how to prepare a nutritious but inexpensive meal. :(

But it's not hard. There exist algorithms for cooking. And it doesn't have to be a salad or anything fancy. I eat a good meal of meat and potatoes for less than I'd spend at a fast food restaurant.


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Sand
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12 Nov 2010, 9:16 am

ruveyn wrote:
[quote="Sand"

It's not wise to display your ignorance so blatantly. Go quietly and look it up. You seem moderately capable with a computer.


I know of one very thin book: the compiled biographies of Finnish Nobel Lauriates.

ruveyn[/quote]

If you were technically competent you would realize that not all worthwhile scientific advance is the concern of Nobel awards. The field is rich with accomplishments of all sorts if you are really concerned.
Frankly I wonder why Finnish scientific accomplishment has suddenly proved so fascinating to you. There are excellent scientists in all sorts of countries operating in various social and economic contexts. The USA has no monopoly on original scientific thought.



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12 Nov 2010, 9:46 am

Sand wrote:
psychohist wrote:
Sand wrote:
The free market is a BS fantasy which even a close reading of Adam Smith dismisses. The amount of unwanted and dangerous crap produced by corporations at prices that in no way reflect the cost of production and dumped on an ignorant public disproves the whole nonsensical myth.

The disdain and disgust for the public here demonstrated is appalling and typical of the liberal attitude. In truth, members of the public are not ignorant and are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves which goods are worth buying and which are not.


Such as the quality of fast foods, the "improvements" in medications that are put on the market because they are under patent rather than that they are better than the cheaper ones they replaced, such as salmonella infected meat that is shipped out by the ton and then recalled because government has discovered the infection, such as toys and baby equipment that is pulled off the market because of lead content or badly designed to be lethal to infants? I suppose after you have lost a kid or two you can wise up.


QFT. The free market exists for the sole purpose of profit - not innovation or public welfare*

*not the checks



number5
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12 Nov 2010, 9:56 am

Orwell wrote:
sartresue wrote:
Orwell wrote:
sartresue wrote:
How can wise food choices lead to obesity? A visual like a food guide or pyramid helps a person to decide better nurtitional choices. It can be more expensive than eating at McD's, but this is the problem: Cheap eats, super sized, available 24/7. Add inactivity, boredom and stress and you have the recipe for obesity. No surprise there.

McD's isn't even cheap. I can go to my local grocery store and eat cheaper (and better) than you ever could at McDonald's. I can even get real beef, instead of whatever the hell is in a Big Mac.


Food politics topic

I know what you mean. I can buy the raw ingredients for a good nurtitious meal rather inexpensively, but for many, eating a hot meal, already cooked, for under five dollars that is ready tickety-boo and supersized full of fill-up but ycuky fries is their way of false economy. For an already overweight person, who would not find a salad filling, even an order of large fries with gravy is more of a meal. I know the logic is flawed, but they prefer this to a box of kraft dinner, the only cheap homemade food many are familiar with, and many of these people do not know how to prepare a nutritious but inexpensive meal. :(

But it's not hard. There exist algorithms for cooking. And it doesn't have to be a salad or anything fancy. I eat a good meal of meat and potatoes for less than I'd spend at a fast food restaurant.


I've found it rather challenging, but have mostly succeeded. I came from a family of non-cookers so had no real background knowledge of how to cook. It took me a few years to learn how to turn $5 into a healthy meal for 4, but I have managed to do so. We usually can't afford organics, though :( .

There's also a general disconnect among many people as to what is cooking and what is real food. In my college years, I would have considered frozen nuggets and a box of mac n' cheese a real home-cooked meal, better than Mickey D's. Americans have a lot to learn about food. Often times what we call "food" really isn't food at all.



psychohist
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12 Nov 2010, 9:57 am

Sand wrote:
Such as the quality of fast foods, the "improvements" in medications that are put on the market because they are under patent rather than that they are better than the cheaper ones they replaced, such as salmonella infected meat that is shipped out by the ton and then recalled because government has discovered the infection, such as toys and baby equipment that is pulled off the market because of lead content or badly designed to be lethal to infants? I suppose after you have lost a kid or two you can wise up.

I've had a couple of strollers voluntarily recalled because of one in a million problems, and received simple fixes to the problem that were easily installed. No government action was required.

Contrast that to what happens in a government controlled economy, where there's a big cover up and no one even finds out about the problem.

The situation with medications is problematic, but the root cause of that problem is government involvement in the medical market, which is heavily regulated and where the government itself is the biggest customer. Make the individuals the customers, and you can bet that problem would go away quickly.

I'd far rather be served by private businesses who have an interest in maintaining their reputation and serving their customers.



number5
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12 Nov 2010, 10:09 am

psychohist wrote:
Sand wrote:
Such as the quality of fast foods, the "improvements" in medications that are put on the market because they are under patent rather than that they are better than the cheaper ones they replaced, such as salmonella infected meat that is shipped out by the ton and then recalled because government has discovered the infection, such as toys and baby equipment that is pulled off the market because of lead content or badly designed to be lethal to infants? I suppose after you have lost a kid or two you can wise up.

I've had a couple of strollers voluntarily recalled because of one in a million problems, and received simple fixes to the problem that were easily installed. No government action was required.

Contrast that to what happens in a government controlled economy, where there's a big cover up and no one even finds out about the problem.

The situation with medications is problematic, but the root cause of that problem is government involvement in the medical market, which is heavily regulated and where the government itself is the biggest customer. Make the individuals the customers, and you can bet that problem would go away quickly.

I'd far rather be served by private businesses who have an interest in maintaining their reputation and serving their customers.


A company, like say Toyota, would never be involved in some sort of cover-up?



ruveyn
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12 Nov 2010, 10:17 am

number5 wrote:



A company, like say Toyota, would never be involved in some sort of cover-up?


Not if their competitors are ready to pounce. Competition is the element in a market economy that makes it workable. Of course every large corporation is busy trying to bribe the government to stifle the competition. People who found businesses love competition. They want to take on the reigning champions. The suits and pencil pushers who end up running the corporations are risk aversive and they dislike competition, despite the lip service they pay to it.

ruveyn



Sand
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12 Nov 2010, 10:57 am

psychohist wrote:
Sand wrote:
Such as the quality of fast foods, the "improvements" in medications that are put on the market because they are under patent rather than that they are better than the cheaper ones they replaced, such as salmonella infected meat that is shipped out by the ton and then recalled because government has discovered the infection, such as toys and baby equipment that is pulled off the market because of lead content or badly designed to be lethal to infants? I suppose after you have lost a kid or two you can wise up.

I've had a couple of strollers voluntarily recalled because of one in a million problems, and received simple fixes to the problem that were easily installed. No government action was required.

Contrast that to what happens in a government controlled economy, where there's a big cover up and no one even finds out about the problem.

The situation with medications is problematic, but the root cause of that problem is government involvement in the medical market, which is heavily regulated and where the government itself is the biggest customer. Make the individuals the customers, and you can bet that problem would go away quickly.

I'd far rather be served by private businesses who have an interest in maintaining their reputation and serving their customers.


People have become seriously ill and died because the testing for government acceptance of medications has been faked or fraudulent. Dead men tell no tales. You are evidently massively ignorant over consequences.