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LKL
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30 Sep 2012, 8:01 pm

The law is based on median maturity levels, which can be fairly objectively measured, and on the physical maturity necessary for a female to bear a healthy child without as much risk of death herself.



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30 Sep 2012, 8:21 pm

LKL wrote:
The law is based on median maturity levels, which can be fairly objectively measured, and on the physical maturity necessary for a female to bear a healthy child without as much risk of death herself.


do you have any citation on that, as far as i know there is a medical base, then you have the cultural view of sex and the ethical consideration, an amalgam of those 3 provide a fairly consistent age limit within a few years in the west, other places some of these laws arent even existent.


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30 Sep 2012, 8:43 pm

LKL wrote:
The law is based on median maturity levels, which can be fairly objectively measured, and on the physical maturity necessary for a female to bear a healthy child without as much risk of death herself.




What median maturity levels? Physical or psychological? If the latter, how are those measured? What about underage males and adult females, eh?



LKL
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30 Sep 2012, 11:34 pm

Wrt. physical maturity levels, see my earlier post (there's a great big graphic on infant mortality by age of mother, and another link on maternal mortality from prgnancy - hard to miss). Wrt. emotional maturity levels, do we really need a source to say that older people are more mature than younger people, in general? Really? When it's part of the definition of the word, /maturity/?



30 Sep 2012, 11:45 pm

AngelRho wrote:
I look at it from two different perspectives. First, I think sex should only be between two consenting, married adults. End of story.


Then don't live in a western country or ANY secular nation for that matter. End of story. Boy am I glad that despite the jesusfreaks in America, we have managed to move beyond the point of making extramarital sex a crime! 8)



@LKL:

The fact that women under 20 are more at risk of death from pregnancy only proves my point as to why statutory rape laws exist and why they were created in the first place which is to protect underage girls from pregnancy. Quite dodging my question about teenage boys though. How do statutory rape laws benefit THEM?



LKL
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01 Oct 2012, 12:12 am

See the above posts. Boys may not be able to get pregnant, but I talked about physical and psychological aspects.



01 Oct 2012, 12:22 am

LKL wrote:
See the above posts. Boys may not be able to get pregnant, but I talked about physical and psychological aspects.



Quite honestly, they are very different for boys than they are for girls. Especially given that women have to cope with the bio/physiological consequences of sex whereas men really don't unless they contract a venereal disease. Most underage boys who have sex with adult women seldom regret it. In fact, if I had been offered sex as a teenager with an adult woman who I thought was sexy, well, quite frankly I would not have refused(though knowing me I'd have insisted that she supply me with a jimmy :lol:). Sometimes teenage boys do regret having sex with someone; as do adult men. But I am cynical of claims that underage boys are somehow "overpowered" by adult women who they sleep with when it happens. Often it's the boy who initiates and the woman who accepts.



jekenai
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01 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
To molest means to touch or fondle without consent. What pedophiles do is basically child RAPE: They force children to have sex with them against that child's will. NOBODY enjoys being raped, but "statutory rape" is legally distinguishable from "sexual assault" in the sense that if an underage person is physically coerced or threatened into have sex with someone that is "sexual assault". But if a teenager gives his/her permission that its statutory rape.


And here we go again, 'pedophiles do'. In fact most of them don't. And most of the child rape isn't done by paedophiles. If a paedophile has sexual contact with a child, it's usually not against the child's will. Then why you use 'pedophiles do'?



01 Oct 2012, 12:55 pm

jekenai wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
To molest means to touch or fondle without consent. What pedophiles do is basically child RAPE: They force children to have sex with them against that child's will. NOBODY enjoys being raped, but "statutory rape" is legally distinguishable from "sexual assault" in the sense that if an underage person is physically coerced or threatened into have sex with someone that is "sexual assault". But if a teenager gives his/her permission that its statutory rape.


And here we go again, 'pedophiles do'. In fact most of them don't. And most of the child rape isn't done by paedophiles. If a paedophile has sexual contact with a child, it's usually not against the child's will. Then why you use 'pedophiles do'?



The definition of a pedophile is a person who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. In my country this is not only taboo, but highly illegal. Also, I have personally known people who were sexually contacted by adults as children against their will. The people I know were women who were molested as children and even teenagers by their fathers and stepfathers. Most children below 13, especially girls, do not want sexual contact from adults! WTF makes you think that it's "usually" not against the child's will? There are too many cases of people who were "sexually contacted" as children by adults and later in life felt, shame, regret, embarrassment, and even anger.

Pedophiles as defined generally do not care what children want. That's why the try to manipulate children into not realizing what is being done to them at the time in order to obtain sexual gratification. You are aware that child molesters have a recidivism rate that's over 90% do you not?



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01 Oct 2012, 1:08 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
You are aware that child molesters have a recidivism rate that's over 90% do you not?


Source?



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01 Oct 2012, 1:17 pm

Classic South Park:

LEAD AGENT
We've been after you for a long time,
buddy! Do you know your rights?

NAMBLA LEADER
Rights? Does anybody know their rights?
You see, I've learned something today.
Our forefathers came to this country
because... they believed in an idea. An
idea called "freedom." They wanted to
live in a place where a group couldn't
be prosecuted for their beliefs. Where
a person can live the way he chooses
to live. You see us as being perverted
because we're different from you. People
are afraid of us, because they don't
understand. And sometimes it's easier
to persecute than to understand.


KYLE
Dude. You have sex with children.

NAMBLA LEADER
We are human. Most of us didn't even
choose to be attracted to young boys.
We were born that way. We can't help
the way we are, and if you all can't
understand that, well, then, I guess
you'll just have to put us away.


KYLE
Dude. You have sex with children.


STAN
Yeah. You know, we believe in equality
for everybody, and tolerance, and all
that gay stuff, but dude, f**k you.


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01 Oct 2012, 1:27 pm

I strongly favor a federal law that bars sex offenders and violent felons from receiving protective custody or administrative segregation behind bars. What seems to be clear is that actually, being sodomized in prison(for sex offenders) drastically decreases recidivism since after being released they remember the hell they went through while doin' hard time. 8)



Vigilans
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01 Oct 2012, 1:29 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
I strongly favor a federal law that bars sex offenders and violent felons from receiving protective custody or administrative segregation behind bars. What seems to be clear is that actually, being sodomized in prison(for sex offenders) drastically decreases recidivism since after being released they remember the hell they went through while doin' hard time. 8)


Here you go with your stupid preventative butt rape strategy again.


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


01 Oct 2012, 1:38 pm

Vigilans wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
I strongly favor a federal law that bars sex offenders and violent felons from receiving protective custody or administrative segregation behind bars. What seems to be clear is that actually, being sodomized in prison(for sex offenders) drastically decreases recidivism since after being released they remember the hell they went through while doin' hard time. 8)


Here you go with your "stupid" corrective butt rape strategy again.



Look bub, if you rape then you get raped. Don't wanna get raped? Don't rape. And keep your body parts out of contact with children at all times. It's that simple! :wink:



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01 Oct 2012, 1:39 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
I strongly favor a federal law that bars sex offenders and violent felons from receiving protective custody or administrative segregation behind bars. What seems to be clear is that actually, being sodomized in prison(for sex offenders) drastically decreases recidivism since after being released they remember the hell they went through while doin' hard time. 8)


Here you go with your "stupid" corrective butt rape strategy again.



Look bub, if you rape then you get raped. Don't wanna get raped? Don't rape. And keep your body parts out of contact with children at all times. It's that simple! :wink:


The only thing simple here is your simple little mind "bub"


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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


jekenai
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01 Oct 2012, 1:41 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
The definition of a pedophile is a person who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. In my country this is not only taboo, but highly illegal.


Is is illegal to be attracted to prepubescent children? Where do you live? 8O Do you think paedophiles choose to be attracted by children?

AspieRogue wrote:
Also, I have personally known people who were sexually contacted by adults as children against their will. The people I know were women who were molested as children and even teenagers by their fathers and stepfathers. Most children below 13, especially girls, do not want sexual contact from adults! WTF makes you think that it's "usually" not against the child's will? There are too many cases of people who were "sexually contacted" as children by adults and later in life felt, shame, regret, embarrassment, and even anger.


Were they diagnosed as paedophiles? How many of them you know? How do you tell that certain person is a paedophile? Do you think the person will tell you it (if you consider public opinion about paedophiles)?

AspieRogue wrote:
Pedophiles as defined generally do not care what children want. That's why the try to manipulate children into not realizing what is being done to them at the time in order to obtain sexual gratification. You are aware that child molesters have a recidivism rate that's over 90% do you not?


Paedophiles generally defined how? As child molesters? That's not a good definition. I think paedophiles defined as people, who are sexually attracted to prepubescent children, usually care what children want. Do you think that gynecophiles usually don't care about what women want?