The blame game gets even more crazy

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skafather84
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12 Jan 2011, 6:01 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Virtually the entire media has had to back away from the Tea Party / Palin / violent rhetoric nexus theory in light of the the shooter's obvious generalized nuttiness

Showing the media's true right-wing bias. All the while there are attempts to label him as a liberal...which is hilarious...a gun-toting, lower class white, anti-fiat money, anti-immigrant liberal.

You know HuffPo even censored Cenk's commentary?

The media is much more biased to the right when it comes to when it really counts.

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ikorack
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12 Jan 2011, 6:04 pm

If Inuyasha said you had an allergy to the facts or something like that I probably wouldn't be the only one agreeing with him. I really hope this is a temporary madness ska.

skafather84
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12 Jan 2011, 6:05 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDla_Ax40k[/youtube]

skafather84
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12 Jan 2011, 6:13 pm

ikorack wrote:

If Inuyasha said you had an allergy to the facts or something like that I probably wouldn't be the only one agreeing with him.

Sadly, facts are not a matter of consensus. No matter how many people say whatever, he still spouted off the rhetoric of the fringe right that has been parroted more and more in the mainstream right's rhetoric. Even Ronald Reagan never encouraged his republican constituents to get their guns if the polls didn't come out the "correct" way as many are now implying. And yes, there's only way to take mixing in guns with political rhetoric: that you're implying forceful coercion of the other side either by threat of death or by death. There's no two ways about that. Those people bringing their guns to political rallies and showing them off? It's not to be cute. The implied message is "listen to me or I might kill you" and it's encouraged.

Inuyasha
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12 Jan 2011, 6:19 pm

@ skafather

When you are in a deep hole, you should stop digging deeper. The facts don't fit with what you are saying.

On another note, I guess this has demonstrated why I don't trust the mainstream media. I mean seriously what are they going to do next, are they going to claim that the shooter was really Sarah Palin or George W. Bush...

Dox47
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12 Jan 2011, 6:37 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Virtually the entire media has had to back away from the Tea Party / Palin / violent rhetoric nexus theory in light of the the shooter's obvious generalized nuttiness

Showing the media's true right-wing bias.

That's one way of looking at it, showing that they aren't complete idiots/a**holes is another...

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Inuyasha
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12 Jan 2011, 7:02 pm

Dox47 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Virtually the entire media has had to back away from the Tea Party / Palin / violent rhetoric nexus theory in light of the the shooter's obvious generalized nuttiness

Showing the media's true right-wing bias.

That's one way of looking at it, showing that they aren't complete idiots/a**holes is another...

Or more of they realized they were committing political suicide and being made into laughing stocks courtesy of Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, and Fox News. Since Rush, Palin, and Fox News all looked at the facts rather than spewing off partisan rhetoric first thing.

Jacoby
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12 Jan 2011, 7:09 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Virtually the entire media has had to back away from the Tea Party / Palin / violent rhetoric nexus theory in light of the the shooter's obvious generalized nuttiness

There are no attempts to label him a liberal. That's merely what some people that knew him have said. The reason it has been repeated is just a natural response since the left felt it necessary to point fingers first.

It appears that Loughner was influenced by the "Zeitgeist movement" more than anything now. I know of the film but I've never watched it. His views seem to match up pretty well with what I know about it.

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12 Jan 2011, 7:40 pm

ikorack wrote:

Orwell wrote:

ikorack wrote:

(I was explaining from the view point of the people we are talking about), even though thats usually what the behavior is labeled as, even if the facts say otherwise.

That makes somewhat more sense, but you have to recognize that the labeling is the issue here, not what the government is actually doing. So your point is completely moot, as the issue is deluded crazies on the right, not extremism or radicalism from the government.

How is the labeling more important than the behavior itself? Unless of course your trying to say the hate will eventually spill over into actual left wing views, it will but not before the key issues are dealt with and by then it will just be another regular political party, not the libertarian slightly anti-left edging toward extremist violence group we have now.(It won't be strong enough by this point to eliminate the left wing)

Um... because as I explained and you seemed to agree, the actual policies in effect are not leftist? It is just delusional paranoia on the part of the far right screaming "socialism!" that creates the false impression in some people that there are far-left policies.

Quote:

But bush didn't have the amount of political clout Obama didn't lose the popular vote like bush, and his majorities where not a result of widespread disappointment in the opposing party. If a right wing politician ran for president in the style of Obama(instead of change perhaps instead promising to reinstate traditional American values for all.) and was successful enough to convince the majority of the population that he was capable of keeping these promises and then disappointed would be just as caustic, if not exactly drawn around the same lines.

I have no idea where you're trying to go with this. Obama's opponents have been histrionic, psychotic, paranoid and (occasionally) racist and even violent. Bush's opponents did not go to nearly the same extremes of psychosis, and Bush didn't receive even a quarter as many death threats as Obama. So your initial claim that the left and right are somehow equal here is completely false.

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12 Jan 2011, 7:42 pm

Jacoby wrote:

There are no attempts to label him a liberal.

You are wrong, and this is a simple question of fact that cannot be debated by sane people. Multiple Tea Party leaders have attempted to paint Loughner as a liberal or a leftist.

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Dox47
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12 Jan 2011, 7:43 pm

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/david-brock- ... -attempts/

Quote:

Media Matters founder David Brock appeared on Hardball and revealed to Chris Matthews his allegation that “Glenn Beck himself has been responsible for three thwarted assassination attempts this year.” Brock listed three occurrences where a crazed assassin targeted a liberal politician or institution, and where evidence later emerged that the assassin may have been a viewer of Beck’s show.

Matthews just nodded in astonishment, not questioning whether such tangential evidence truly would establish Beck as somehow “responsible” for each assassination attempt. Ron Reagan was slightly less inflammatory with his criticism of Beck, merely asserting that Beck, “constantly refers to political opponents on the left as traitors, treasonous, Marxists, fascists, Nazis, [and saying] we’ve got to do something about it, we may have to take to the street. You can see that as entertainment, but some people like Mr. Loughner are not going to see that as entertainment, they are going to take it seriously. . . . We all expected something like this, awful like this, was going to happen and it did.”

In a discussion about toning down the rhetoric on both sides, it seems as if the founder of Media Matters and Ron Reagan may have missed the memo.

Watch the clip from MSNBC below:

Check the link for the actual video clips, I don't feel any need to comment myself.

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Jacoby
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12 Jan 2011, 7:50 pm

Orwell wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

There are no attempts to label him a liberal.

You are wrong, and this is a simple question of fact that cannot be debated by sane people. Multiple Tea Party leaders have attempted to paint Loughner as a liberal or a leftist.

Because that's what people that knew him said. Pretty sure no one has said he was a conservative, Tea Partier, or whatever.

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12 Jan 2011, 7:54 pm

Jacoby, you are still wrong on the basic fact.

And I have not seen such reports from people who knew him, but whatever.

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ikorack
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12 Jan 2011, 8:06 pm

I am simply saying that if a right wing president brought a number of fascist policies and attempted to bring fascist laws into place, the reaction from the left would be no better than the right's is now.

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12 Jan 2011, 9:07 pm

ikorack wrote:

I actually doubt that that's true, given that plenty of libs thought Bush was pushing us in the direction of fascism. And they had better grounds for that belief than right-wingers do for their Obama-Marxist fantasies (it was still, at best, a huge exaggeration, but it was not as much of an outright fabrication).

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ikorack
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12 Jan 2011, 9:19 pm

Orwell wrote:

ikorack wrote:

Bush was pushing us into the direction of fascism he just had better opportunities and some amount of political skill. What better reasons do they have than the right wingers have now?

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