Is free will a sign of love?

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You're welcome.



That's actually a good idea. The word "Free Will" adds nothing but confusion. My "Will" is free in every sense that is important to me. It is true that ones degree of freedom can be limited, but there is an important element of "predetermination" in the universe. Event B follows A, C follows B, D follows C....and thought processes are events influenced by this kind of chain.

This is the part of God that I directly perceive, but I also believe that God cannot be limited by the term being because God is one and cannot be separated from reality objective or subjective; which also means that I cannot separate myself from God or anyone else from God. I don't think I can put any limit on God and don't discount forces that are part of God that I may not be aware of as a human. My perception of God is perhaps a larger one than the historical American Indian because I am aware of the Universe through modern science.

When I look at a Nautilus Shell a hurricane or a spiral galaxy; or an atom with a nucleus and orbiting particles and the Sun with orbiting planets, there is a oneness of God that I cannot deny.

It is theism in the largest sense and there are many that define God in this way.

I can't exclude anyone's theist or non-theist views because in my opinion they are both part of the subjective reality that cannot be separated from God.

No individual taught me to believe this way it is based on my experience and perception of reality.

My perception of this reality was the strongest when I was three, had not spoken a sentence to anyone, and had not had the opportunity to fully define myself and separate myself from the all that is.

Exactly, we're inexorably trapped! The way I used my full determinism is this - I now follow my instincts more clearly and seek what's optimal, right now its pursuing strengths rather than working too hard to crowd please, doing what's ultimately most meaningful to me simply in that IMO there's a life done right and there's a life done wrong, the bullying of my past is starting to lose its grip on me and I like that. On the other hand, at times where I feel like I'm coming up short in life, rather than beat myself within inches of my own life - physically or psychologically/emotionally and getting the urge to go commit an honor suicide I rather start trying to remind myself that I am who I am, I have my limits, and if this is all I can be at the moment - it may make little sense to do so, even though if I'm preordained to be truly vicious toward myself for any type of failure I'd suppose that there's no thwarting that, what's going to happen is going to happen.

The thing I like about this though - it seems to work just as well whether you're dealing with an atheistic or theistic rubric, this way I know that I'm seeing is real regardless of whether I cease to exist and am nothing more than maggot food at the end or whether I have an extradimentional 'part' on lease that gets drawn back somewhere else and starts a new predestined path - whether that's going to something that a lot of psychics and metaphysics people describe as the 'larger life' where we live in heaven as we do here but under better circumstances or weather we are in a chase toward the end goal of being one with the universe. I won't try to push for either reality although I do admit that it helps me to pray every morning and call the things that aren't as if they are (a trick that I learned from Charles Capps), as a full determinist I'm overjoyed that the influences in my life have given me to prayer - just because I get the impression that prayer could just as easily be the effect and God choosing to give me something later on be the cause - simply because the whole thing we think of as chronology is, when you think about space, time, and the big bang, perhaps something closer to a one time built apparatus where everything we ever will do and anything that will ever happen, in either prior history, future history, or the now, was already fully known at the big bang.

I guess I have to admit as well that I just love having a different foothold than before, and with this foothold I feel like I'm one big step closer to unraveling something big. Perhaps by the time I hit 50 or 60 I'll have that particular 'something big'. Like anything else though its not by my hard work necessarily, its not that I'd be able to claim that if I can anyone can, that's precisely the point - such thoughts are utterly hypothetical, imaginary, and really are fiction if its truly a one-path world for all. I guess in a way it gives me a sense of mission though, I just hope I don't get too annoying or with it on here .


We're like a chemical that's having forward and backward reactions, we'll hit equilibrium one of these days just by, I think, the natural progress of energy potential. Or, with luck, we may blow ourselves up and - hey - that's almost as good! If no one's alive to experience pain or existential problems its all solved! Not saying I'd go nihilist and joyously accept anything, I'm as Republican as ever, but going past my immediate impulses and needs to deal with certain dynamics or vote for or against certain things I also realize that I'm simply a small piece, don't need to be anything more unless its destined to happen regardless, and at the end of the day I can bring myself to relax because I know at this point more firmly that all I can do is all I can do.

I saw an interesting analogy recently (alas, can't remember where). We typically think of ourselves as boats in the time stream. Our notion of "free will" comes from thinking that we can somehow affect our course, that we have a tiller under our control. But we're really just flotsam experiencing the currents. Our "decisions" are just eddies not under our control.

As well as that anything we experience as 'us' even is not under our control.

Why use the word "God"? You still haven't explicitly defined God as a being, so just call it "Nature" if you think it is not a being, and "God" if you think it is.I still think you're talking about pantheism.

I am fortunate to have a basic understanding of the Universe but am limited in my human perception of it. I consider God to be infinite and eternal, beyond the word creation and not limited by the constraints of our perception of the Universe.

I suspect there are many forces at play that some of us partially perceive and some of us don't. I believe in what many would call supernatural forces but do not believe in the word "supernatural"; everything is connected, nothing can be disconnected.

I am not limiting God to the term, being, because it is limited by the parameters of the human mind and in part is defined as that which is the human mind. The illusion of free will is one of the driving forces behind views that can give the illusion that we can be separated from God and the illusion that God is separate from what we perceive in the world.

I don't think you could call it Scientific Pantheism because I have experienced and co-experienced connectiveness with others that science cannot currently measure.

Scientific Pantheism wouldn't consider a "spiritual" phenomenom like this until it could be measured and proven as part of nature. I believe in what some others may consider to be supernatural spirituality, but believe it is part of the natural essence of God.

I use the word God because of the common element of "Natural Spiritualism" that I believe is related to spirituality as referenced in other religions. If I were to use a term like "scientific pantheism" it would limit God to nature and the local physical Universe.

Definitions provided below:

A Classical Pantheist views the Omniverse as a spiritual unity, which could be equated to the idea of the one theistic god but is better understood beyond and above the ordinary accepted understanding of theism.

Classical pantheism is distinct primarily because of its simplicity, and compatibility with other religious traditions. In many ways, classical pantheism is similar to monism, in that it views all things, from energy to matter to thought or time as being aspects of an all embracing personal God.

When a Classical Pantheist says “god” they are referring to the Omniverse. When a Scientific Pantheist says god they are referring to our local physical Universe and Nature.

From the definitions provided my definition of God come very close to Classical Pantheistic views. My views are significantly different than those of a strictly scientific pantheist view because they do not limit God to what has been observed and measured in the local physical Universe and Nature.