God's Plan for our lives

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leejosepho
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18 Apr 2011, 2:34 pm

Fuzzy wrote:

... if one subscribes to the idea that god created it all, then he is indeed responsible for whatever imperfection exists.

So then, you would say (or one or more of us should rationally or otherwise believe) there is no other explanation for the alleged f**k up of something as simple as someone not having a working, functional vagina and uterus?

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sartresue
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18 Apr 2011, 2:48 pm

Vigilans wrote:

@ryan93
lol more like 20 years
But, I'm tired of cold Canadian winters, so some heat will be a nice change of pace

Cremation of Sam McGee topic

Sizzlin' Sam.

And he was from Tennessee. :mrgreen:

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sartresue
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18 Apr 2011, 3:06 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Fuzzy wrote:

... if one subscribes to the idea that god created it all, then he is indeed responsible for whatever imperfection exists.

Why god is not great topic

Like many humans, I have no need of a god to explain the way I am, was, or could be. If it turns your crank, then that is your choice to believe, as it works for you.

As for me, no thanks.

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LibertarianAS
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18 Apr 2011, 3:51 pm

Finnish Socialists rejected the socialists EU

oh the irony

much like trotsky fan boys vs Staling fan boys

f*****g moron

cdfox7
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18 Apr 2011, 3:58 pm

LibertarianAS wrote:

Finnish Socialists rejected the socialists EU

oh the irony

much like trotsky fan boys vs Staling fan boys

f***ing moron

Wrong topic!! ! What's that got to do with God's plan?

sartresue
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18 Apr 2011, 3:59 pm

LibertarianAS wrote:

Finnish Socialists rejected the socialists EU

oh the irony

much like trotsky fan boys vs Staling fan boys

f***ing moron

Ironic wrinkles topic

I think this post belongs in the Finnish thread. :wink:

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MidlifeAspie
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18 Apr 2011, 5:15 pm

LibertarianAS wrote:

Finnish Socialists rejected the socialists EU

oh the irony

much like trotsky fan boys vs Staling fan boys

f***ing moron

That's a personal attack, but for the life of me I can't even figure out who you are attacking so I guess it can slide.

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MCalavera
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18 Apr 2011, 5:42 pm

LadyGray wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

LadyGray wrote:

God managed to f**k up something as simple as giving me a working, functional vagina and uterus.

How did you come to believe that is/was His fault?

I don't. But if a god did exist, it would be the culprit.

If god dislikes evil but allows it, god is evil.
If god dislikes evil and stops it, why is there still evil?
If god dislikes evil but can't stop it, god is not omnipotent, violating the bible.
Give me bulls**t about freewill if you like, but even a mere mortal like myself can find ways to reduce suffering without influencing free will.

If the Christian god exists, it is the lowest of scum.
Why would I follow the whims of such a hideous, callous, immoral being?

You know, family members of a narcissist usually don't realize how harmful and dangerous he is even when he keeps abusing them and acting and behaving like how a narcissist acts and behaves. Not unless each of them eventually gives it a very good thought and sees the narcissistic person for what he truly is.

In other words, don't count on Christians to realize how narcissistic their god really is until they each have the time and motivation to sit down in their privacy of his/her room and have a really good think about it.

Subotai
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18 Apr 2011, 8:27 pm

MCalavera wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

And if so, why even bother as human beings to follow any kind of morality at all?

Because we're conditioned by nature to be moral, and it feels good to be moral and help others.

Did you really think you have moral standards because of God? No, it's because of who you are by nature.

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Further, if it was God that unbelievers rejected, why would God condemn them to an eternity in His presence? If they wanted all their lives to escape God, does it not make better sense that God would allow the same in the next life?

What if I just want to rest in peace when I die. No heaven and no hell. If your god can't accept this, then f*ck him.

Maybe you're looking at the concept of "heaven" too simplistically.

leejosepho
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18 Apr 2011, 8:32 pm

sartresue wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Fuzzy wrote:

... if one subscribes to the idea that god created it all, then he is indeed responsible for whatever imperfection exists.

Like many humans, I have no need of a god to explain ...

I understand, and I say the same about myself.

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LadyGray
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19 Apr 2011, 4:52 am

leejosepho wrote:

LadyGray wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

LadyGray wrote:

God managed to f**k up something as simple as giving me a working, functional vagina and uterus.

How did you come to believe that is/was His fault?

I don't.

Then why do you blame Him?

I'm doing the thread creator the favour of pretending god exists, so I can illustrate what a disgusting, evil being zie would be, if zie actually existed.
Everyone just ignores the obvious implications of an omnipotent being who makes excuses for not making the world perfect, and picks out the parts of the bible they like while ignoring the rest.

You know what my favourite parts of the bible are?
The "all sins are equal" part, the "everyone sins part" and the "the following sins get you hell" part. If one sin gets you to hell, and all sins are equal, all sins get you hell. If everyone sins, everyone is going to hell. See what people ignore in the bible?
T'is most ridiculous.

You want more? If god is referred to as "he", god is a male. As god has no physical body, that clearly means that god has a male mind. Now, a female and a male mind, by definition, differ from a genderless mind in certain biases. So if god has a male mind, rather than an androgynous mind, it is either because a male mind is superior, or godhood is innately male. Either is a deeply genderist assumption.

Every last bit of the bible has a dangling chain of logic that brushes the kind of primitive conclusions that have caused suffering and misery for thousands of years.
Follow the plan of such a profoundly horrific creature?
Not on your life.

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leejosepho
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19 Apr 2011, 5:58 am

LadyGray wrote:

I'm doing the thread creator the favour of pretending god exists, so I can illustrate what a disgusting, evil being zie would be, if zie actually existed.

I understand, and you are certainly not alone in your disdain.

LadyGray wrote:

Everyone just ignores the obvious implications of an omnipotent being who makes excuses for not making the world perfect ...

Do you have any examples of those alleged excuses or are they also merely of the "pretend" variety?

LadyGray wrote:

You know what my favourite parts of the bible are?
The "all sins are equal" part, the "everyone sins part" and the "the following sins get you hell" part. If one sin gets you to hell, and all sins are equal, all sins get you hell. If everyone sins, everyone is going to hell. See what people ignore in the bible?
T'is most ridiculous.

I think it is sad there are so many people actually practicing and propagating that confusion you have well-described.

LadyGray wrote:

You want more? If god is referred to as "he", god is a male. As god has no physical body, that clearly means that god has a male mind. Now, a female and a male mind, by definition, differ from a genderless mind in certain biases. So if god has a male mind, rather than an androgynous mind, it is either because a male mind is superior, or godhood is innately male. Either is a deeply genderist assumption.

I am not sufficiently educated or informed for talking about all of that, but I do hear your concern there.

LadyGray wrote:

Every last bit of the bible has a dangling chain of logic that brushes the kind of primitive conclusions that have caused suffering and misery for thousands of years.

Not as I understand it.

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LadyGray
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19 Apr 2011, 6:50 am

leejosepho wrote:

LadyGray wrote:

I'm doing the thread creator the favour of pretending god exists, so I can illustrate what a disgusting, evil being zie would be, if zie actually existed.

I understand, and you are certainly not alone in your disdain.

LadyGray wrote:

Everyone just ignores the obvious implications of an omnipotent being who makes excuses for not making the world perfect ...

Do you have any examples of those alleged excuses or are they also merely of the "pretend" variety?

LadyGray wrote:

I think it is sad there are so many people actually practicing and propagating that confusion you have well-described.

LadyGray wrote:

I am not sufficiently educated or informed for talking about all of that, but I do hear your concern there.

LadyGray wrote:

Every last bit of the bible has a dangling chain of logic that brushes the kind of primitive conclusions that have caused suffering and misery for thousands of years.

Not as I understand it.

The excuses for god not making the world perfect that I've heard are "god can't tamper with free will" and "people wouldn't be happy without suffering".
They can be refuted with the fact that the bible claims god is omnipotent.
An omnipotent being can do anything, and hence anything it does not do is because it does not desire to. God could make people much tougher but no stronger, so we would have difficulty killing each other. Less suffering, no free will impact. God could create plentiful resources. Less conflict, no free will impact. Those are just two examples.

The bible contradicting itself is not a "confusion", it's what the bible says.
Do you dispute that the bible means what it says? Do you believe that one can pick and choose the parts they like to construct a coherent meaning?
If you take everything the bible says and believe it, it will contradict itself. There is no dispute.

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MCalavera
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19 Apr 2011, 7:21 am

Subotai wrote:

Maybe you're looking at the concept of "heaven" too simplistically.

Nirvana is not heaven. It's better than that.

leejosepho
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19 Apr 2011, 7:26 am

LadyGray wrote:

I am not aware of God ever claiming the world was perfect even at the time of creation. Certain things are called "good" or even "very good" ...

"And Elohim saw the light, that it was good ...
"And Elohim saw all that He had made, and see, it was very good ..."
(Genesis 1:4-31)

... but the first "perfect" mentioned within Scripture (as far as I know) is in relation to Noah:

"This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with Elohim."
(Genesis 6:9)

So while any one or more of us might complain about things not being perfect, I am not aware of that kind of expectation even being reasonable in a world where "perfect" actually seems far more related to us.

LadyGray wrote:

An omnipotent being can do anything, and hence anything it does not do is because it does not desire to.

Can God make a rock too large for God to move? Can God make a one-ended stick?

Desire is far from being the only factor there where matters of sovereignty and character or whatever else must also be considered.

LadyGray wrote:

God could make people much tougher but no stronger, so we would have difficulty killing each other.

I think it makes more sense to simply tell us to not do so.

LadyGray wrote:

Do you dispute that the bible means what it says?

I do not look at "the bible" as any kind of singular "voice" actually saying anything.

LadyGray wrote:

Do you believe that one can pick and choose the parts they like to construct a coherent meaning?

Certainly, but that does not mean it is a good idea for people to do so.

LadyGray wrote:

If you take everything the bible says and believe it, it will contradict itself.

Again: "The bible" is not any kind of singular "voice". It is but an assembled collection of books written by human beings.

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