Homosexuality decoded

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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24 Apr 2011, 11:45 am

LKL wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is making insinuations about the sexuality of anyone who says anything anti-gay the only tool in the cupboard of the online gay rights movement? It seems to happen every time one of these threads comes up, and it sorta takes me back to middle school.

It is pretty old.

That's because it's proven true over and over and over again. It's practically a law that if a politician or religious leader campaigns against gays, he's going to be caught with a gay prostitute, or soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom, or driving drunk on the way home from a gay bar, or tied up in a wetsuit with a banana up his rectum after having strangled himself to death (off the top of my head). If he campaigns against infidelity, you can bet he's having an affair with his campaign manager's wife or someone else equally inappropriate.

It's not 'practically a law'. There are plenty of people out there that are anti-gay and don't harbor urges for the same sex. It's generalizing, and only serves to anger the other side.

Sure, it's funny when an anti-gay public figure turns out to be gay but they are by no means representative of an entire group of people.

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AceOfSpades
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24 Apr 2011, 2:29 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Exactly, it's pop psych BS. People who are in the closet are usually gonna try to blend in, they aren't necessarily gonna be hardcore homophobes. And besides, how does it help the cause of getting homosexuality accepted into society if these insinuations make people who are supposedly in the closet even more touchy about it? It's just f*****g childish and it pisses me off cuz of how hypocritical and petty it is.

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

LKL wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

It is pretty old.

QFT. It makes no sense to ridicule people who were anti-gay and all the sudden came outta the closet. They should be embraced for coming to terms with who they are and people should understand the pain that influenced em to be so anti-gay in the first place. If Fred Phelps were to come outta the closet and stop the crap he's doing, I would definitely have a lot more respect for him.

HerrGrimm
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24 Apr 2011, 2:50 pm

Despite supporting gay rights, I am pretty sure I did not do any of that name-calling when I posted previously...

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AceOfSpades
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24 Apr 2011, 2:55 pm

Lecks wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Here's some science on why the notion of homosexuality being a lifestyle is BS since the obvious fact that no one woke up one morning and decided to be homosexual isn't enough for em:
http://men.webmd.com/features/5-things- ... your-penis

Quote:

You've probably noticed that your penis often does its own thing. You may remember times when it was completely inappropriate to have an erection; and yet you couldn't wish it away.

It's true that you have less command over your penis than body parts like your arms and legs. That's because the penis answers to a part of the nervous system that's not always under your conscious control. This is called the autonomic nervous system, which also regulates heart rate and blood pressure.

Sexual arousal usually isn't voluntary. The conscious mind is complicit in it, but a lot of sexual arousal goes on in the sympathetic nervous system. In addition, impulses from the brain during the REM phase of sleep cause erections, whether you're dreaming about sex or about a test you forgot to study for. Heavy lifting or straining to have a bowel movement can also produce an erection.

What does this have to do with homosexuality, or sexual and romantic attraction in general? Arousal != attraction.

I wasn't talking about romantic attraction, I was talking about sexual arousal, as in your dick getting hard. I was also specifically addressing the BS idea of homosexuality being a "lifestyle".

TeaEarlGreyHot
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24 Apr 2011, 2:56 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

It makes no sense to ridicule people who were anti-gay and all the sudden came outta the closet. They should be embraced for coming to terms with who they are and people should understand the pain that influenced em to be so anti-gay in the first place. If Fred Phelps were to come outta the closet and stop the crap he's doing, I would definitely have a lot more respect for him.

Coming out is a very hard thing to do. Being caught and outed by the media? I can't even imagine...

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24 Apr 2011, 3:22 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Well, in reality it has happened that many homophobes turn out to be gay. But my own opinion is simple: I find it very, very amusing making homophobes uncomfortable. They act like stupid children, I'll treat them like stupid children. Its really that simple

Not to mention that, but in my own experience, I've had idiotic homophobes try and question my sexuality because I defend gay rights and I'm a straight man. So it works both ways, except only one side is being facetious about it. Homophobes calling straight people gay for supporting gay rights really, really mean it in a mean spirited way

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LKL
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24 Apr 2011, 3:24 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Exactly, it's pop psych BS. People who are in the closet are usually gonna try to blend in, they aren't necessarily gonna be hardcore homophobes. And besides, how does it help the cause of getting homosexuality accepted into society if these insinuations make people who are supposedly in the closet even more touchy about it? It's just f***ing childish and it pisses me off cuz of how hypocritical and petty it is.

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

LKL wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

It is pretty old.

Unfortunately, the anti-gay politicians and religious figures who are found to be, shall we say, indiscriminately gay, almost never 'come out of the closet.' The are outed by their own bad private behavior, at the same time that they are preaching that gays should be stoned to death.
Here we go, with the most well known:
Larry Craig
George Rekers
Ted Haggard
Ed Schrock
Robert Allen
Mark Foley
Glen Murphy
David Dreyer
Bruce Barclay
Roy Ashburn
Jim West
Gary Aldridge
Eddie Long
Troy King
Richard Curtis
Then, of course, there is this classic study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014
I mock these men not because they are gay, but because they are pathetic, self-deluding hypocrites. I would have nothing but sympathy for them if they had accidentally outed themselves after a lifetime of working for equality for other people like themselves, but instead they used their positions to actively harm other people out of fear of their own urges. Because of that, I have nothing but contempt for them.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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24 Apr 2011, 3:32 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

I prefer to hit on them rather than call them closeted gays.

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AceOfSpades
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24 Apr 2011, 3:33 pm

LKL wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Making homophobes uncomfortable doesn't help em accept homosexuality or come to terms with it if they happen to be gay, it only makes homophobia worse. If you don't want em acting like children, then don't act like one yourself. Insinuating that they're secretly gay and making the problem worse is an immature way of dealing with it. It is self-defeating, petty, and reflects the shortsightedness of a child.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 24 Apr 2011, 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Apr 2011, 3:52 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

They're never going to accept homosexuality. I might as well get some laughs at them, because treating them as equals doesn't accomplish anything other then give them a sense of entitlement and credibility that they don't deserve. Making them uncomfortable by posting videos of Village People songs is not childish compared to viewing someone's preference in love and sexual partnership as a 'neurological impediment' because it goes against their interpretations of some 2,000 year old work of fiction

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24 Apr 2011, 4:01 pm

I should add my idea of making them uncomfortable generally just involves posting videos of sweaty guys working out or pictures of 'bears'.

AceOfSpades
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24 Apr 2011, 4:07 pm

Vigilans wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

They're never going to accept homosexuality

Yeah, they're never going to as long as they face the fear of being outed. Do you not see how self-defeating it is to be in favour of equality for homosexuals, yet making insinuations about homophobes as if it's not okay to be gay if you're self-loathing? People who spread BS about homosexuality deserve to be called out on their BS, not to have their complex made even worse.

Vigilans wrote:

I might as well get some laughs at them, because treating them as equals doesn't accomplish anything other then give them a sense of entitlement and credibility that they don't deserve. Making them uncomfortable by posting videos of Village People songs is not childish compared to viewing someone's preference in love and sexual partnership as a 'neurological impediment' because it goes against their interpretations of some 2,000 year old work of fiction

I didn't say treat em as equals, I'm saying this petty BS does nothing to help closet homophobes come to terms with their sexuality or straight homophobes accept homosexuality. I want them to come to terms with their own sexuality so they can begin to help the cause and stop hurting it. Or in the case of straight homophobes, not to feel like less of a man for it. You might find it funny, but I don't find it funny at all that petty BS like that hurts the cause.

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24 Apr 2011, 4:14 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

They're never going to accept homosexuality

Vigilans wrote:

I actually don't try and get them to out themselves. Thats Perez Hilton-bullshit man. All I do is post pictures or videos of s**t I know will piss off homophobes who aren't closet gays. Pandabear is the only person (afaik) in this thread who actually went out and said Ragtime was homosexual.

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24 Apr 2011, 4:19 pm

Vigilans wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

They're never going to accept homosexuality

Vigilans wrote:

I actually don't try and get them to out themselves. Thats Perez Hilton-bullshit man. All I do is post pictures or videos of sh** I know will piss off homophobes who aren't closet gays. Pandabear is the only person (afaik) in this thread who actually went out and said Ragtime was homosexual.

I don't try to get people to out themselves either since it's none of my business. Also Perez Hilton doesn't help the cause at all by acting like an annoying limp wristing stereotype. I just do not wanna reinforce the precedents that lead to homophobia or reinforce the barriers people have that prevents em from dropping the homophobic crap. If people feel like less of men and become even more uncomfortable with homosexuality, then that only serves to make it worse. I want the BS to stop, so I definitely don't wanna fight fire with fire. Anyways, I don't wanna go back and forth and page to page with this so all I can say is that I'd like you to think about this beyond the shortsightedness of cheap amusement.

LKL
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24 Apr 2011, 4:30 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

All your contempt does is reinforce the barrier that prevents people from coming out. They would find it much easier to cut the crap out if they weren't ridiculed for being a hardcore homophobic that happens to be gay. And making a list of people still doesn't prove a correlation, cuz that's 10 people out of everyone who has ever came outta the closet. Bring some scientific facts to the table. And no, armchair psychoanalysis doesn't count. Face it, it's pop psych BS and it's foolish to believe in oversimplified crap like that that pertains to a topic as complex as homosexuality. Cut this crap out and they'll cut their crap out.
...Making homophobes uncomfortable doesn't help em accept homosexuality or come to terms with it if they happen to be gay, it only makes homophobia worse. If you don't want em acting like children, then don't act like one yourself. Insinuating that they're secretly gay and making the problem worse is an immature way of dealing with it. It is self-defeating, petty, and reflects the shortsightedness of a child.

The controlled, published, physiological pubmed study doesn't count as 'scientific fact?' Care to elucidate just what you would accept as 'scientific fact'?
The gay men and women I know, if they were ever closeted, did not put off coming out of the closet because hypocrites like the ones I cited were outed; they put off coming out of the closet because of attitudes like those espoused by the hypocrites themselves before they were outed. The more we can do to shut those jerks up, the better it will be for everyone.

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24 Apr 2011, 4:34 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

They're never going to accept homosexuality

Vigilans wrote:

I hate Hilton as well, I think he's a hedonistic moron. But as I said, homophobes freely use the tactic of questioning people's sexuality if they side with LGBT rights. I don't see it as fighting fire with fire, as it is entirely humorous in nature, using that tactic back at them. They are being dishonest if they claim not to see that, being purposely obtuse, because it is pretty obvious that it isn't serious. I think you're right though this isn't really a worthwhile discussion to have. I never plan on letting up pressure on these scumbags, as being friendly with them doesn't work

I really don't understand what Ragtime was trying to accomplish with this thread.

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