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Why are conservatives hated more than liberals?

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Philologos
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30 May 2011, 7:46 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
What about libertarians? How do they match up against conservatives and liberals?


You have to know something exists and have at least a vague idea what it is to hate it, Very few people in my area hate Doukhobors or the Fir Bolg.



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30 May 2011, 10:11 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Orwell wrote:
I really am curious, where do you get your history? America started out as an interventionist state?


It really depends on what you regard as "intervention". While there was quite a bit of disunity among the founding fathers on foreign affairs, the US Government engaged in the Barbary War as early as 1801 and invaded British North America as early as 1812. There was also a lot of invasion when it came to conquering indigenous territory.

Barbary Wars weren't really interventionism- that was providing security for trade. The failed invasion of Canada was a joke, and Madison was harshly criticized at the time for allowing the US to have any part in the War of 1812. And the claims of the indigenous peoples to that land were not recognized as legitimate, either by the Americans or by other European colonists.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
We've always seen ourselves advancing what we uniquely regard as the universal rights of mankind. It is no accident that we persist in thinking that among our many missions in the world is to defend those rights, which we are often hypocritcal of, but no one can deny that this is what animates and moves this great nation.

That's just not true. America was not founded as some revolutionary vanguard, dedicated to spreading democracy everywhere and overthrowing all other forms of government. The purpose was to achieve independence and republican governance here, on this continent, for ourselves, and Europe be damned. The French revolution (and later the Bolshevik revolution) had more interest in spreading their ideologies across the world. Even the relatively more aggressive Monroe Doctrine merely said that European powers should stay out of American affairs. We made no serious attempts at influencing European politics until the 20th century, and then only begrudgingly.

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All four had unity on the view that this would become an interventionist and internationalist state with an important role to play in human history and responsibilities to uphold Liberty and Freedom everywhere.

Again, simply not true. Jefferson envisioned a quiet, agrarian nation.

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It was a religious war as the Muslims had some anti-Christian rhetoric that didn't sit well with Jefferson or Congress. Believe it or not, Jefferson's koran was an english translation made by a lawyer named George Sales so that Jefferson could better know the enemy.

You never answered my question about where you get your history. Based on this answer, I am going to agree with another poster (I forget who it was) who alleged that you are parroting claims that probably come from homeschooler or evangelical materials.


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marshall
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30 May 2011, 10:42 am

psychohist wrote:
marshall wrote:
Not being diplomatic might just be a sign of having an over-inflated ego, don'tcha think?

On this forum, not being diplomatic is almost certainly just a sign of being on the spectrum.

I was just illustrating Inuyasha's double standard. When "liberals" state strong opinions or use strong rhetoric against conservatives they are being "arrogant". Yet when Inuyasha does the same against liberals it's just being "blunt" or "undiplomatic".



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30 May 2011, 11:34 am

Philologos wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
What about libertarians? How do they match up against conservatives and liberals?


You have to know something exists and have at least a vague idea what it is to hate it, Very few people in my area hate Doukhobors or the Fir Bolg.


damn Russian Quakers. get some clothes on!

are there fir Bolf haters?


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Philologos
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30 May 2011, 11:47 am

I used to think it was doctrinal, but seems it was just the one march.

I think the Gaels killed off / absorbed all the Fir Bolg. Like hating Moabites.



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30 May 2011, 11:57 am

Philologos wrote:
I used to think it was doctrinal, but seems it was just the one march.

I think the Gaels killed off / absorbed all the Fir Bolg. Like hating Moabites.


they sometimes burn their own houses too.
there are some doctrinal nudists Adamites and Naaktloopers


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Inuyasha
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30 May 2011, 12:03 pm

Orwell wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Orwell wrote:
I really am curious, where do you get your history? America started out as an interventionist state?


It really depends on what you regard as "intervention". While there was quite a bit of disunity among the founding fathers on foreign affairs, the US Government engaged in the Barbary War as early as 1801 and invaded British North America as early as 1812. There was also a lot of invasion when it came to conquering indigenous territory.

Barbary Wars weren't really interventionism- that was providing security for trade. The failed invasion of Canada was a joke, and Madison was harshly criticized at the time for allowing the US to have any part in the War of 1812. And the claims of the indigenous peoples to that land were not recognized as legitimate, either by the Americans or by other European colonists.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
We've always seen ourselves advancing what we uniquely regard as the universal rights of mankind. It is no accident that we persist in thinking that among our many missions in the world is to defend those rights, which we are often hypocritcal of, but no one can deny that this is what animates and moves this great nation.

That's just not true. America was not founded as some revolutionary vanguard, dedicated to spreading democracy everywhere and overthrowing all other forms of government. The purpose was to achieve independence and republican governance here, on this continent, for ourselves, and Europe be damned. The French revolution (and later the Bolshevik revolution) had more interest in spreading their ideologies across the world. Even the relatively more aggressive Monroe Doctrine merely said that European powers should stay out of American affairs. We made no serious attempts at influencing European politics until the 20th century, and then only begrudgingly.

Quote:
All four had unity on the view that this would become an interventionist and internationalist state with an important role to play in human history and responsibilities to uphold Liberty and Freedom everywhere.

Again, simply not true. Jefferson envisioned a quiet, agrarian nation.

Quote:
It was a religious war as the Muslims had some anti-Christian rhetoric that didn't sit well with Jefferson or Congress. Believe it or not, Jefferson's koran was an english translation made by a lawyer named George Sales so that Jefferson could better know the enemy.

You never answered my question about where you get your history. Based on this answer, I am going to agree with another poster (I forget who it was) who alleged that you are parroting claims that probably come from homeschooler or evangelical materials.


I have to agree with Orwell about the Barbary Pirates, they were attacking US merchant ships, unlike the European countries whom were paying protection money, Jefferson decided that we were going to put a stop to them attacking our ships by force.

However, Orwell your comment about home schooling is way out of line.



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30 May 2011, 12:25 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Philologos wrote:
I used to think it was doctrinal, but seems it was just the one march.

I think the Gaels killed off / absorbed all the Fir Bolg. Like hating Moabites.


they sometimes burn their own houses too.
there are some doctrinal nudists Adamites and Naaktloopers


Don't know the Naaktlopers [ should NOT have of followed by a single vowel] - I will look 'em up. Sooner Adamites than Skoptsy



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30 May 2011, 12:30 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
However, Orwell your comment about home schooling is way out of line.

Agreed. He's ignoring the endless list of private schools who will try to push the same garbage.



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30 May 2011, 12:32 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
However, Orwell your comment about home schooling is way out of line.

Agreed. He's ignoring the endless list of private schools who will try to push the same garbage.


Your comment about private schools is also way out of line.



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30 May 2011, 12:37 pm

hey, so what about them smug right libertarians eh? are they just trying to piss off there rich conservative parents by becoming atheists?


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30 May 2011, 12:38 pm

Orwell wrote:
You never answered my question about where you get your history. Based on this answer, I am going to agree with another poster (I forget who it was) who alleged that you are parroting claims that probably come from homeschooler or evangelical materials.


There are parents who homeschool their children, not for religious reasons, but because most of the public schools funded by tax-loot are utterly inferior scholastically and intellectually. There are parents who want to make sure their children are educated in an intellectually upright manner but their cannot afford fancy private schools. So they home school their youngster to make sure they learn math and science and proper language and grammer which are taught poorly in the public schools. Most public schools scoop the brains out of their pupils killing their curiosity and critical thinking abilities.

The purpose of public school is to turn out young obedient robots who will work, pay taxes, not question authority and not rock the boat.

ruveyn



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30 May 2011, 12:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Orwell wrote:
You never answered my question about where you get your history. Based on this answer, I am going to agree with another poster (I forget who it was) who alleged that you are parroting claims that probably come from homeschooler or evangelical materials.


There are parents who homeschool their children, not for religious reasons, but because most of the public schools funded by tax-loot are utterly inferior scholastically and intellectually. There are parents who want to make sure their children are educated in an intellectually upright manner but their cannot afford fancy private schools. So they home school their youngster to make sure they learn math and science and proper language and grammer which are taught poorly in the public schools. Most public schools scoop the brains out of their pupils killing their curiosity and critical thinking abilities.

The purpose of public school is to turn out young obedient robots who will work, pay taxes, not question authority and not rock the boat.

ruveyn


taxes are the price you pay for living in civil society.


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30 May 2011, 12:59 pm

Phonic wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Orwell wrote:
You never answered my question about where you get your history. Based on this answer, I am going to agree with another poster (I forget who it was) who alleged that you are parroting claims that probably come from homeschooler or evangelical materials.


There are parents who homeschool their children, not for religious reasons, but because most of the public schools funded by tax-loot are utterly inferior scholastically and intellectually. There are parents who want to make sure their children are educated in an intellectually upright manner but their cannot afford fancy private schools. So they home school their youngster to make sure they learn math and science and proper language and grammer which are taught poorly in the public schools. Most public schools scoop the brains out of their pupils killing their curiosity and critical thinking abilities.

The purpose of public school is to turn out young obedient robots who will work, pay taxes, not question authority and not rock the boat.

ruveyn


taxes are the price you pay for living in civil society.


He's saying that instead of fulfilling the educational obligations our tax money is paying for, the school system is working to brainwash our kids, and there is evidence to support said claims.

The e-mail box runneth over with bad tidings. Teachers are reporting that cheating is rampant in New York City schools -- and they claim principals are the culprits.

The reports are responding to my column that many schools are denying students the freedom to fail in a misguided bid to help them. To judge from the response, the problem is worse than I feared. Much worse.

First, a professional in a Manhattan high school wrote to say that teachers in her school are "encouraged" to pass 80 percent of students, no matter their grades or attendance. She offered student writing samples filled with glaring errors of spelling and grammar to prove that "social promotion is alive and well."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/teac ... z1NrORYC2L



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30 May 2011, 2:11 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
What about libertarians? How do they match up against conservatives and liberals?

That depends on whether they are the type of libertarian that actually values liberty or the type of empathy deprived individual that simply hates taxes, shows intense contempt for anyone receiving "handouts", screams "socialist!" a lot, etc... I'm more inclined to label the later as a simple right-winger. They are really no different sans being a bit less eager to wage wars and/or shove religion down people's throats.



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30 May 2011, 2:16 pm

Number 1 Son affiliates himself to libertarians. He is rather more vocal / dogmatic than I was at equivalent age. By me a lot of libertarians are far too vocal and dogmatic. YES, dogmatic libertarians, but look at conservatuivers who seek change and liberals who will not give you a dime for a cup of coffee.

I was - and maybe still, though I have mellowed because what is the point - a pessimistic idealist anarchist. Not THAT far from the defeatist realist I may actually be now.