The defence of marriage issue: my take

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Kraichgauer
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15 Aug 2011, 11:45 pm

simon_says wrote:

That's exactly my response to Inuyasha.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Orwell
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15 Aug 2011, 11:48 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

It's simple actually, call it a civil union from a secular standpoint as far as the state is concerned for both heterosexual and homosexual couples, and the term "marriage" refers to having undergone the church wedding.

And the Christian churches that are happy to perform same-sex weddings? Those people will still be considered "married," yes?

Haven't many of these churches been essentially disowned by the church at large.

And when (not if) entire major denominations endorse gay marriage?

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Inuyasha
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15 Aug 2011, 11:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

That's exactly my response to Inuyasha.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Or how about how wonderful government run healthcare is supposed to be, personally I fail to see how telling a woman to kill herself is wonderful...

A 64 year old women, and cancer survivor, living in Oregon; Ms. Wagner learned her cancer had returned and would likely kill her. There was a chance for her survival however, a $4,000 a month drug which her doctor felt she was a good candidate for. Sadly her insurance provider determined this was not a good allocation of resources and denied coverage. Ms. Wagner is now dead from cancer. Which insurance company denied her coverage? Which greedy corporation put profits ahead of people and let Ms. Wagner die when lifesaving care was available? As I stated above, Oregon's state run health insurance plan determined $4,000 was too large an expense for a 64 year old women who had already had cancer once before. A better use of funds would be a $50 assisted suicide pill. This is what was offered to Ms. Wagner in an unsigned letter, this was her “public option”. (Recap, the greedy drug manufacturer offered Ms. Wagner free cancer drugs after her Government health plan denied coverage)
http://www.examiner.com/law-and-politic ... ll-instead

Orwell
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15 Aug 2011, 11:51 pm

What is wrong with you? Why the sudden and abrupt changes in topic?

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Kraichgauer
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15 Aug 2011, 11:56 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

That's exactly my response to Inuyasha.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

That's absolutely terrible!
But be that as it may, it's not the subject at hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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16 Aug 2011, 12:03 am

Orwell wrote:

What is wrong with you? Why the sudden and abrupt changes in topic?

Because Inuyasha is a disgraceful spammer of these forums.

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Inuyasha
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16 Aug 2011, 12:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

That's exactly my response to Inuyasha.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

That's absolutely terrible!
But be that as it may, it's not the subject at hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Oh but it is.

You asked:

Kraichgauer wrote:

What reason do you have to think that?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

To which I gave 2 reasons, both stemming from Obamacare, as to reasons why I don't take Democrats at their word.

So I haven't gone off topic.

Master_Pedant wrote:

Because Inuyasha is a disgraceful spammer of these forums.

How about you start reading instead of engaging in a disingenious smear campaign as usual.

Orwell wrote:

What is wrong with you? Why the sudden and abrupt changes in topic?

And you claim I don't read... :roll:

Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2011, 12:14 am

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

That's exactly my response to Inuyasha.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

That's absolutely terrible!
But be that as it may, it's not the subject at hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Oh but it is.

You asked:

Kraichgauer wrote:

What reason do you have to think that?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

To which I gave 2 reasons, both stemming from Obamacare, as to reasons why I don't take Democrats at their word.

So I haven't gone off topic.

Master_Pedant wrote:

Because Inuyasha is a disgraceful spammer of these forums.

How about you start reading instead of engaging in a disingenious smear campaign as usual.

Orwell wrote:

What is wrong with you? Why the sudden and abrupt changes in topic?

And you claim I don't read... :roll:

Like Republicans haven't broken promises before.
But the whole point of opposing gay rights is that Republicans need to demonize someone, whether it's gays, Muslims, socialists, or whoever. How else can they get ordinary Americans to vote against their own economic interests?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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16 Aug 2011, 12:16 am

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

That's absolutely terrible!
But be that as it may, it's not the subject at hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Oh but it is.

You asked:

Kraichgauer wrote:

What reason do you have to think that?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

To which I gave 2 reasons, both stemming from Obamacare, as to reasons why I don't take Democrats at their word.

You gave one unsupported claim about federal funding for abortion, and one random tangent about something that has absolutely nothing to do with "Obamacare."

Quote:

So I haven't gone off topic.

Yes, you have. I have already presented several concrete examples (which you have ignored) of instances where the extension of civil rights to previously discriminated-against groups did not result in anyone else's rights being curtailed. You are trying to go off on some random tangent that Democrats are untrustworthy, and therefore any paranoid fantasy you can come up with is bound to happen.

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Master_Pedant
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16 Aug 2011, 12:42 am

Inuyasha wrote:

How about you start reading instead of engaging in a disingenious smear campaign as usual.

I have read well into that spin doctored examiner version of the ABC articlle and responded thoroughly, IN THE OTHER THREAD! Why you insist on derailing this thread (which, if you have severe reading difficulties, is about MARRIAGE, not HEALTHCARE REFORM) is beyond me, aside from the fact that you've revealed yourself time and time again to be a political spam-artist.

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ValentineWiggin
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16 Aug 2011, 1:36 am

Orwell wrote:

What is wrong with you?

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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Aug 2011, 4:04 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:

I read a thoughtful progressive marin journal (don't remember the name anymore) from a newsstand next to my bus stop and it talked about a secular jewish family who reapproached religion with justifications that didn't bother their secular ways. They say a secular prayer of thanks before meals, it is not to a God but they manage to make it meaningful to themselves and they do it to emote gratitude, a value that enriches their lives and makes for a better human being, and one they hope their children will pick up. They also keep a 7th day holy to disconnect from the world(especially electronics), to reflect, and spend it with each other (and while their children are young, it is enforced.)

Exactly!

I've tried writing threads on just that topic, though I might as well have just placed an empty post out there and tied a 1000 lb anvil to them - they sunk that fast.

MarketAndChurch wrote:

I sometimes think that atheist and secular fear of ritual is that the process is sometimes viewed as a substitute for thought and the non-questioning of irrationalities. Irrationalities will always exist, but when they are practiced, and walled off from being challenged, the ideal is more important then both people and their lives. These are just my gut feelings, I honestly don't know as it is not something that's come up often and I haven't had time to think it through.

My impression has always been that many (fellow) atheists aren't at peace with the human condition and tend to feel like we have fewer inherent structural needs psychologically than we really do or at least prefer to think that this is nothing more than religious conditioning rather than what I think is more realistically a fundamental human need shaping religion.

Ultimately to find meaning you need reminders, the world also works better when it culturally shares those reminders. If its a positive outlook - some positive peer pressure to conformity isn't a bad thing at all. Too much allergy to culture really unravels us and, ultimately, leaves people quite often spinning in oblivion with nothing to grab onto.

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pandabear
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16 Aug 2011, 6:52 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

How about you start reading instead of engaging in a disingenious smear campaign as usual.

The maneuver is called the "Inuyasha Pie Shick."

Inuyasha has now, in his mind, won the debate and put everyone else in his/her place.

Shame on you, for engaging in your usual "disingenious smear campaign", rather than making it an ingenious smear campaign!

Too bad Inuyasha didn't bring up ostriches again, or I would have shown him!

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16 Aug 2011, 11:32 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Yeah that seems like a fairly decent solution.....I honestly do not even find the idea of traditional marrige all that appealing, but people should have the right to it if they so choose.

But yes I think there could be various types of marrige type set ups that all receive the same legal rights or whatever, like I belive homosexuals should be able to have a civil union or whatever they would like to call it and have it treated the same as a traditional marrige as far as the legal status....I also think they should be able to adopt for instance as I see no reason why a homosexual couple could not provide a loving home for a child.

I don't think a compromise is good enough. Separate but equal isn't equal and legislature should not be governed by religion or some juvenile complex about it. They should have equal rights and recognition and not have to settle for less.

Well I was not trying to say they should settle for less......but the idea of a perfectly traditional marrige has become kind of obsolete for most of society. So I was just more suggesting that should not be the standard by which all bonds between two people who love each other are based upon. And all of these bonds should be treated the same legally.

I disagree with traditional marriage becoming obsolete, as I'm in a traditional marriage, myself. And from what I've observed, it's the right to have a traditional marriage that gay people want for themselves. And they should in no way be denied.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Most gay people I have spoken to or talked to on forums really just want their bond to be recognized legally the way a tradtional marrige is......and many of them are perfectly ok with calling it something other than marrige, though its ridiculous that the religious think they own marrige in my opinion. but if its that big of a deal then it can be called something else.

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16 Aug 2011, 11:35 am

Inuyasha wrote:

Many cultures advocate polygamy, should we allow that too?

How about child brides, many cultures practice that?

Btw, I'm not talking hypotheticals.

BIG WATER, Utah— Members of Utah's polygamous communities are making a renewed push to decriminalize polygamy. They argue that if state officials really want to combat abuse in the closed society, they should decriminalize their marriages.

Boudicca Joseph was one of the nine wives of Alex Joseph, who founded the southern Utah town of Big Water. She is one of those pushing for polygamy to be decriminalized, arguing that it is the only way to really fight crimes within the closed and often isolated polygamous communities.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu ... 2928.story

If the polygamous relationship/marrige is between consenting adults I personally see no problem with it, as for child brides that should not be allowed considering a child and a consenting adult are totally different.

trying to put homosexuality in the same catagory as pedophilia is very inaccurate.

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16 Aug 2011, 11:37 am

Inuyasha wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Reminds me of a quote from the iconic 1967 movie Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?

Who conducted the poll?

What poll?

The one simon_says is apparently quoting...

Since when are quotes from movies and polls the same thing?

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