Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Obama's "New" plan to reduce the deficit

Page 6 of 10 [ 160 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

22 Sep 2011, 7:33 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Still not seeing any data to back your claims...


Literally, if we took away the minimum wage—if conceivably it was gone—we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Arizona

22 Sep 2011, 7:49 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Still not seeing any data to back your claims...


I must say, you provide compelling counter argument. :roll: What type of data do you want?

Look up what happened in American Samoa when federally mandated minimum wage took effect there in 2007.

Actually, lets go full circle and let Peter Schiff explain it to you

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LaPGIIAyk4[/youtube]



blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

22 Sep 2011, 10:38 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Still not seeing any data to back your claims...


I must say, you provide compelling counter argument. :roll: What type of data do you want?

Look up what happened in American Samoa when federally mandated minimum wage took effect there in 2007.

Actually, lets go full circle and let Peter Schiff explain it to you


Peter "Lets turn the USA into a shanghai slum" Schiff can kiss my pimply white backside.

Find another source.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Arizona

22 Sep 2011, 11:01 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Still not seeing any data to back your claims...


I must say, you provide compelling counter argument. :roll: What type of data do you want?

Look up what happened in American Samoa when federally mandated minimum wage took effect there in 2007.

Actually, lets go full circle and let Peter Schiff explain it to you


Peter "Lets turn the USA into a shanghai slum" Schiff can kiss my pimply white backside.

Find another source.


You should really do something about those pimples, maybe get them some sun or something.

I'd say American Samoa looks a lot more like a "shanghai slum" now than it did before 2007



blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

23 Sep 2011, 1:14 am

Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Still not seeing any data to back your claims...


I must say, you provide compelling counter argument. :roll: What type of data do you want?

Look up what happened in American Samoa when federally mandated minimum wage took effect there in 2007.

Actually, lets go full circle and let Peter Schiff explain it to you


Peter "Lets turn the USA into a shanghai slum" Schiff can kiss my pimply white backside.

Find another source.


You should really do something about those pimples, maybe get them some sun or something.

I'd say American Samoa looks a lot more like a "shanghai slum" now than it did before 2007


We're talking about a guy who wants to abolish the minimum wage, abolish anti-discrimination laws, abolish over-time pay, abolish regulations mandating a safe workplace, abolish medical leave, and abolish unemployment insurance.

His agenda is deeply offensive and an affront to the American Way. He does not deserve my time for anything more than a quick punch to the wedding tackle.

If you want to source something as fact, it will have to come from someone who is not a self-avowed aspiring robber baron.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

23 Sep 2011, 8:24 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Still not seeing any data to back your claims...


I must say, you provide compelling counter argument. :roll: What type of data do you want?

Look up what happened in American Samoa when federally mandated minimum wage took effect there in 2007.

Actually, lets go full circle and let Peter Schiff explain it to you


Peter "Lets turn the USA into a shanghai slum" Schiff can kiss my pimply white backside.

Find another source.


You should really do something about those pimples, maybe get them some sun or something.

I'd say American Samoa looks a lot more like a "shanghai slum" now than it did before 2007


We're talking about a guy who wants to abolish the minimum wage, abolish anti-discrimination laws, abolish over-time pay, abolish regulations mandating a safe workplace, abolish medical leave, and abolish unemployment insurance.

His agenda is deeply offensive and an affront to the American Way. He does not deserve my time for anything more than a quick punch to the wedding tackle.

If you want to source something as fact, it will have to come from someone who is not a self-avowed aspiring robber baron.


He represents everything that repulses me about the "libertarian" movement. I for one wouldn't mind paying more for all the "stuff" we buy that currently gets manufactured overseas if it meant access to living wage for everyone in this country. The idea that it can't happen is a lie. In the 1950s and 1960s developed countries mostly manufactured their own "stuff". Economies can be self-reliant without destroying wages and working conditions.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

23 Sep 2011, 8:26 am

marshall wrote:

He represents everything that repulses me about the "libertarian" movement. I for one wouldn't mind paying more for all the "stuff" we buy that currently gets manufactured overseas if it meant access to living wage for everyone in this country. The idea that it can't happen is a lie. In the 1950s and 1960s developed countries mostly manufactured their own "stuff". Economies can be self-reliant without destroying wages and working conditions.


That "more" you would be paying would be a subsidy to support unproductive and less productive people. Why not a flat out tax to support the miserable and useless in our society?

ruveyn



number5
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,691
Location: sunny philadelphia

23 Sep 2011, 8:45 am

blauSamstag wrote:
number5 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Minimum wage hurts poor people way more than it helps them.

A statement for which there is no actual evidence or data to back.


It's common sense. Having a job is better than having no job and being locked out of the job market. A high minimum wage drives jobs overseas and you're not even really going to make any more money because the additional costs employing people will drive up the price of the goods and services as well. It's pretty dang hard to even get a minimum wage job right now and the longer you're out the of job market the more likely that you'll become permanently unemployable. You're not going to be able to support yourself independently on $7.25 an hour and I think you can understand what would happen if they raised it to like $15 or $25 an hour.


That's such a hyperbole. How about $10 or $11/hour? It's not quite a living wage, depending on location and dependents, but it's a heck of a lot closer and would greatly reduce taxpayer subsidization of making ends meet.

To solve the outsourcing problem, how about taxing companies that do it and incentivise domestic hiring?

The working poor don't have to take the hit on this one.


I remember back in 2002, when i was an unemployed tech worker, how the Bush administration was arguing that we have to allow American companies to move their production over-seas, just so they can survive, and then when the economy improves clearly they will see the value in moving those jobs back to the USA.

What a load of bullflop.


I remember that argument as well. It basically comes down to 'we must do everything possible to cater to big business and then everything will just fall magically into place.' This past decade has clearly illustrated what happens when that line of thinking is put into policy.

CEO pay is absurd, rising on average by 27% just in 2010. The guys with the biggest raises are usually the ones who call for layoffs. http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies ... 45634384/1



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

23 Sep 2011, 8:46 am

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

He represents everything that repulses me about the "libertarian" movement. I for one wouldn't mind paying more for all the "stuff" we buy that currently gets manufactured overseas if it meant access to living wage for everyone in this country. The idea that it can't happen is a lie. In the 1950s and 1960s developed countries mostly manufactured their own "stuff". Economies can be self-reliant without destroying wages and working conditions.


That "more" you would be paying would be a subsidy to support unproductive and less productive people. Why not a flat out tax to support the miserable and useless in our society?

ruveyn


Oh boy. :roll:

Because maximizing "productivity" through wage slavery is immoral whether it occurs at home or overseas. It's called treating human beings with dignity. Something a slithering misanthrope like you would know nothing about.

Also, using tax money to subsidize the existence of the percentage of society that can't find work makes those who do work somehow think the grass must be greener on the other side of the fence. I'm sure you would love not having a choice but to to exist off the tax dole of others who walk around spitting on you and telling you you would be better off dead. Most people would rather be able to earn a living than put up with your kind of bigotry. The thing is in a society with high unemployment a sizable number of people don't have that choice. A society filled with resentment and hatred based on economic class is not healthy.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

23 Sep 2011, 9:12 am

marshall wrote:
A society filled with resentment and hatred based on economic class is not healthy.


Neither is a society that penalizes the productive for being productive.

ruveyn



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

23 Sep 2011, 9:30 am

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
A society filled with resentment and hatred based on economic class is not healthy.


Neither is a society that penalizes the productive for being productive.

ruveyn


What the hell do you mean? Having universal labor standards does not penalize the productive. It prevents exploitation. Labor laws are part of modern democracy. Want to abolish labor laws? You'll have to organize a right-wing military coup/dictatorship a la Pinoche's takeover of Chile. The majority of Americans (even conservative ones) won't stand for that unless they are coerced by plutocrats with guns.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Arizona

23 Sep 2011, 9:36 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Still not seeing any data to back your claims...


I must say, you provide compelling counter argument. :roll: What type of data do you want?

Look up what happened in American Samoa when federally mandated minimum wage took effect there in 2007.

Actually, lets go full circle and let Peter Schiff explain it to you


Peter "Lets turn the USA into a shanghai slum" Schiff can kiss my pimply white backside.

Find another source.


You should really do something about those pimples, maybe get them some sun or something.

I'd say American Samoa looks a lot more like a "shanghai slum" now than it did before 2007


We're talking about a guy who wants to abolish the minimum wage, abolish anti-discrimination laws, abolish over-time pay, abolish regulations mandating a safe workplace, abolish medical leave, and abolish unemployment insurance.

His agenda is deeply offensive and an affront to the American Way. He does not deserve my time for anything more than a quick punch to the wedding tackle.

If you want to source something as fact, it will have to come from someone who is not a self-avowed aspiring robber baron.


What has happened in American Samoa is well documented. There was actually a hearing going on about it on Capitol Hill as I typed this.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/Calen ... tID=260206



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

23 Sep 2011, 9:45 am

marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
A society filled with resentment and hatred based on economic class is not healthy.


Neither is a society that penalizes the productive for being productive.

ruveyn


What the hell do you mean? Having universal labor standards does not penalize the productive. It prevents exploitation. Labor laws are part of modern democracy. Want to abolish labor laws? You'll have to organize a right-wing military coup/dictatorship a la Pinoche's takeover of Chile. The majority of Americans (even conservative ones) won't stand for that unless they are coerced by plutocrats with guns.


Taxing the rich, merely for being rich is class warfare and bigotry.

If it is the case that some of the rich become so by foul means, they THAT is the problem that should be attacked. Taxation purely on the basis of income should not be discriminatory. Nor should unequal treatment of workers vis a vis owners be discriminatory. Property must be respected or we will have a primitive society in no time flat.

ruveyn



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

23 Sep 2011, 9:50 am

Jacoby wrote:
What has happened in American Samoa is well documented. There was actually a hearing going on about it on Capitol Hill as I typed this.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/Calen ... tID=260206

Minimum wages should be set based on the local cost of living and gradually raised with time. It looks like a dumb political feud lead to this result.



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

23 Sep 2011, 9:50 am

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
A society filled with resentment and hatred based on economic class is not healthy.


Neither is a society that penalizes the productive for being productive.

ruveyn
Thank god no one is proposing that, then?


_________________
.


marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

23 Sep 2011, 9:53 am

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
A society filled with resentment and hatred based on economic class is not healthy.


Neither is a society that penalizes the productive for being productive.

ruveyn


What the hell do you mean? Having universal labor standards does not penalize the productive. It prevents exploitation. Labor laws are part of modern democracy. Want to abolish labor laws? You'll have to organize a right-wing military coup/dictatorship a la Pinoche's takeover of Chile. The majority of Americans (even conservative ones) won't stand for that unless they are coerced by plutocrats with guns.


Taxing the rich, merely for being rich is class warfare and bigotry.

If it is the case that some of the rich become so by foul means, they THAT is the problem that should be attacked. Taxation purely on the basis of income should not be discriminatory. Nor should unequal treatment of workers vis a vis owners be discriminatory. Property must be respected or we will have a primitive society in no time flat.

ruveyn


Are you literate? :roll: Quit changing the subject.