How can Aspies be conservative except under duress?

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EzraS
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26 Dec 2018, 9:35 am

Piobaire wrote:

EzraS wrote:

orwell often springs to mind when comes to liberalism.

Suggesting that either you haven't actually read "1984", or you didn't understand it.

animal farm. try to follow along better.

kraftiekortie
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26 Dec 2018, 10:00 am

Radical ideologies---both Left and Right----could easily cause the Dystopias that "1984" and "Animal Farm" portray.

Orwell was trying to warn us about the dangers of fanaticism----about political brainwashing as practiced by fanatics everywhere. Hitler from the Right. Stalin from the (pseudo) Left. Chairman Mao from the (more true) Left.

EzraS
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26 Dec 2018, 11:22 am

i see claims of superiority one way or another all the time from those who probably wouldn't be considered far-left. they have apparently let liberalism convince them that they're actually superior on a genetic level. you know, like a master race. and they can't seem to see how much they display attitudes they are supposed to be fighting against. really it seems they just want to replace what they object to with liberalism's version of it.

kraftiekortie
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26 Dec 2018, 11:25 am

Those on the Far Right also proclaim their superiority, and the inferiority of the “masses.”

Piobaire
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26 Dec 2018, 11:35 am

EzraS wrote:

Piobaire wrote:

EzraS wrote:

orwell often springs to mind when comes to liberalism.

Suggesting that either you haven't actually read "1984", or you didn't understand it.

animal farm. try to follow along better.

Sorry; I was trying in vain to make sense of what you were trying to say. You do know that "Animal Farm" was intended as a critique of Stalinist Communism, having nothing at all to do with "Liberals", and that George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist, right?

Magna
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26 Dec 2018, 11:36 am

EzraS wrote:

This is an astute conclusion, Ezra. For me what you say brings to mind, in a macro-cosmic sense, the devolution of the "hippie culture" and "free thinking". History tells us that "hippies" back in the 1960's were the "counter-revolution". Meaning, "hippies" were counter/against "the man"; they were against heavy handed authority. They were against authority telling them what to do and against authority telling them how to live their lives or worse forcing them to live their lives in ways they rejected. They rejected authority, they rejected government being an authoritative body. They saw authority as an oppressor.

Flash forward to today. The U.S. government is still an authoritative body of course, but it could be argued that it's largely run by former "hippies" in ideology. It could be argued that they have become what they previously hated most and which is the crux of what you're saying.

Magna
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26 Dec 2018, 11:40 am

Piobaire wrote:

I don't see how any of that changes your statement from seeming to be very communistic when you said:

"Goddamned right; I'm one of those "coastal elites" who values intelligence, education, competence, and expertise; who sincerely believes that for civilization to progress the intelligentsia absolutely should hold supremacy over dolts."

And it doesn't change the fact that your statement seems to be something that aligns with the premise of Animal Farm.

Kraichgauer
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26 Dec 2018, 11:55 am

EzraS wrote:

orwell often springs to mind when comes to liberalism.

I seem to remember the horse practically worked to death, then is sent to the glue factory for his trouble. Using the working class like that, then tossing them away is in the realm of the right, not the left.

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EzraS
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26 Dec 2018, 12:03 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Those on the Far Right also proclaim their superiority, and the inferiority of the “masses.”

yeah and liberalism is supposed to be against that concept rather than claim it.

Magna
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26 Dec 2018, 12:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

orwell often springs to mind when comes to liberalism.

I'm not sure about comparing communism with "right" or conservative ideology rather than with "left" or liberal ideology.

But Boxer, the horse was a blind and unquestioning follower of Napoleon (the pig). Boxer willingly embraced the ideology and the laws forced upon him by the 'intelligentsia'. Boxer implicitly trusted the 'intelligentsia' and was proud to be a cog. Boxer worked himself to death, evermore, in allegiance to the cause. In no way, from what I recall, did Boxer believe he was being exploited as a worker, not paid enough, working as a slave for the 1% or any such thing. Quite the opposite.

In fact, it would be more accurate to say that Boxer was a victim of the intelligentsia who believed their ideas were supreme and that all others (dolts?) should be subject to them.

EzraS
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26 Dec 2018, 12:15 pm

Piobaire wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Piobaire wrote:

EzraS wrote:

orwell often springs to mind when comes to liberalism.

Suggesting that either you haven't actually read "1984", or you didn't understand it.

animal farm. try to follow along better.

took you a while too look that up eh. you were and are continuing your dubious assertion of supremacy over others. hence my rebuff.

kraftiekortie
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26 Dec 2018, 1:40 pm

Pol Pot, in the 1970s in Cambodia, railed against the "intelligentsia," and had millions of them killed.

People were taken from the cities in Cambodia, and forced to work on collective farms and other "concentration camp" type places.

sly279
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26 Dec 2018, 2:37 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I would say both the "extreme Left" and the extreme Right" both have a high potential for oppression of the "masses."

Marx had some nice theories about the "rising of the working classes," and "historical determinism." Wouldn't it be nice if the oppression of the elites and the "bourgeoisie" stopped? And that we can "share the wealth?"

The fact is----that the leaders of this communistic "new world order" will, inevitably, acquire the characteristics of that "bourgeoisie," and, in practice, this is just what happened in Communist China, the USSR, and other nations of a "communist" bent.

Same thing with the "extreme Right"---but there is no pretention towards "equality," though, and the "ascendency of the oppressed."

I say: Screw both of them!! ! !

Do you agree with us opinion that’s conservative leaning people are all stupid as that’s the only way someone could be conservative and therefore all progressives are super intelligent?

kraftiekortie
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26 Dec 2018, 2:40 pm

Come on, Sly. You know I don't believe that.

There are stupid liberals, and smart conservatives.

Some conservative ideas are very practical. Some liberal ideas are very impractical.

Kraichgauer
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26 Dec 2018, 6:04 pm

Magna wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

orwell often springs to mind when comes to liberalism.

It's been years since I've read Animal Farm, and while I might be wrong, I don't recall the term "intelligensia" used in regard to the pig elite. What's wrong with being intelligent, well read, and having an appreciation for the arts? Because those things are attributed to what the Russians described as the intelligensia.
In American society, I expect to see the right, not the left, using the working class till they're too tired and weak to go on, then chastise them for wanting a social safety net to care for them, let alone expecting their employers to reward loyalty and hard work with a pension after retirement.

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sly279
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26 Dec 2018, 6:31 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Come on, Sly. You know I don't believe that.

There are stupid liberals, and smart conservatives.

Some conservative ideas are very practical. Some liberal ideas are very impractical.

You hadn’t commented on it so I thought I’d ask I wasn’t suggesting you were.

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