Why do some people have religious beliefs?

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06 Feb 2012, 3:28 pm

here's my take on it..... i am going to preface my opinions by saying that i vacillate between agnosticism and atheism, but i respect faith a great deal. many times i have wished i could believe in something religious, but i can't. i consider that to be a defect of my mind - i seem to be incapable of taking a "leap of faith" as it were.

i think that faith is dependent on how our individual brains work. some studies have identified areas of the brain involved in religiosity. though some studies have been criticised, others have been replicated. Ramachandran showed that religious people show a heightened emotional response to religious stimuli, and he pinpointed the medial temporal lobe as being responsible for those feelings (which is also experienced by some people with temporal lobe epilepsy).

http://irshadonline.org/2010/09/05/phan ... -epilepsy/

however, that doesn't explain why some people have a tendency towards religiosity in the first place. we could reason that there are temporal lobe variations that lead to religious beliefs but there is no proof of that whatsoever.

another study showed that suggestibility is a predictor in determining when a person would be likely to have a mystical experience:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4004013473

that study would seem to point to the idea that a belief in a personal god or mystical experience would happen only to suggestible people, and that somehow atheists must be more resistant to suggestion. i would most heartily disagree, because i am *extremely* suggestible (i can be partially hypnotised while watching a hynotist on youtube), yet i am immune to feeling any mystical effects or godlike presence regardless of the situation.

basically, i think that some differences in religiosity would simply be due to different ways that our brains work, and it is reinforced by confirmation bias. we believe the evidence that supports our pre-formed ideas. also, a religious person and an atheist person can be faced with identical evidence for or against god and come away with opposite conclusions (not sure what kind of bias is involved in that).

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06 Feb 2012, 3:29 pm

MarsCoban wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Why do so many theists consider atheism to be a personal insult to them?

No one likes to be wrong. When someone thinks differently than you, they're telling you you're wrong. Right?

WHY DO YOU HATE ME?! !!

That's the thing- saying I am an atheist automatically gives people this impression that I'm telling them their beliefs are BS. Yet if someone were to say they were a Hindu or whatever they would respectfully keep their distance. Yet that Hindu no doubt does not believe the same things, are they saying Christianity is wrong? What it ultimately comes down to is hostility towards atheism. In truth, I cannot mention I am an atheist in my day to day life because this gets me hostility.

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06 Feb 2012, 3:33 pm

Vigilans wrote:

MarsCoban wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Why do so many theists consider atheism to be a personal insult to them?

No one likes to be wrong. When someone thinks differently than you, they're telling you you're wrong. Right?

Well, it's like Hindus and Christians are playing the same game, they're just different teams. So maybe its easier for them to sympathize with each other than for them to sympathize with someone who simply isn't playing the game.

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06 Feb 2012, 3:40 pm

Some may consider me a religious person. I have my ideas and rituals, but do not adhere to a specific religion.

Why do I believe there is a higher being? It's not so much weak-mindedness or a need to think there's some ultimate plan as I am a Deist. At one point, I did my share of Atheism and what I found is that I am simply incapable of disbelieving in a higher power. Some choose to call it god, some choose to say "I don't know" and still others choose to believe there is nothing but the natural world around them... things they can touch, feel, see, objectify... the tangible. While I am very much attached to the idea of the tangible world, I can't help wondering what else may be there that we cannot see. Perception is an interesting subject to me. What we perceive to be the 'real world' today is but a peek at what is out there, and perhaps we'll never really know it all.

I suppose my mind wanders too much for me not to believe *something* greater than us is out there somewhere.

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06 Feb 2012, 3:43 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

I spent a good chunk of my life 'wanting' to believe in God. In the interests of intellectual and emotional honesty, I eventually decided that I never truly could. I can't even believe in pantheism.

I think the only type of God I might be able to believe in sometimes is 'evil God', but I think that belief is a symptom of my depression.

I don't think it's a defect of mind, so much as it just is. It makes it difficult for me to relate to other people who have faith, but meh. Not being able to relate to people is kind of my forte.

EDIT: also, I'm very suggestible as well, so I suspect that's not a factor.

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06 Feb 2012, 3:46 pm

MarsCoban wrote:

1. What's the difference between calling it a higher power, or God?

It just semantics. I used the words "some higher power" to differentiate between an undefined god that we don't know the first thing about and the metric ton of very specific gods that humanity has thought up in the past. The latter kind of god tends to come with a dogma.

What I would like to know is: What is the difference between god as in "some higher supernatural power" and your god? I mean, do you have a god that you worship or pray to? Do you live according to certain religiously inspired rules? Do you believe in an afterlife? If the answer to all these questions is No, where is the point in believing in a god that may or may not exist and may or may not care what you believe or do?

Quote:

2. I've never read a clear description of any God. Also, any attempts at description could be totally metaphorical in nature.

Holy books tend to describe gods in great detail. For example, the Judeo-Christian god is described as the omnipotent and omniscient creator of the sun and the Earth who created two humans in his image. He is very jealous and doesn't want people to worship other gods, and he has decreed all kinds of laws that reflect his personal opinion on various matters. According to Christians, he also has a son who was sent on a suicide mission and so on.

Of course all this could be read as metaphorical stories, but Christians tend to think that certain core beliefs are true (savior Jesus, heaven and hell etc). Otherwise, there would be no point for them to worship, pray, and follow certain rules. Some believers also think that the laws and rules of their god should affect political decisions, and that is where atheists step up and say hurtful things like "sorry, but why should I have to live my life according to your dogma? Where is the evidence for your claims?" We don't really care what people believe as long as they leave us be.

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06 Feb 2012, 3:59 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

That makes sense to me, and I don't see any harm in this belief. I also see something greater than my own inconsequential life, something that has me in awe. I call it universe, but I can understand why people see it as divine and call it god (like Einstein did). The only thing that I cannot understand or accept is religious dogma.

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06 Feb 2012, 4:01 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I happen to believe the universe is this higher power.

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06 Feb 2012, 4:14 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

That reminds me of something Robert Sapolsky said in his lectures about the origin of religion:

"What are we to make of the possibility that each one of us goes through some process in our life deciding how religious or irreligious we are going to be? For a lot of us, this is among the most defining features of who we are. It's just as interesting to ask the question why some of us lose faith as to ask why some of us gain faith. It is just as biological, it is simply much less studied."

Some humans (the majority of humans, actually) are naturally spiritual, whereas others naturally reject spiritual beliefs at some point and adopt an entirely naturalistic / materialistic world view. I can accept and respect that. My only problem is that some religions and their dogmas are very harmful to humanity, especially the ones that are politically active. I wish it would be easier to reform those religions into something more humane and more beneficial for society that is not at odds with scientific research.

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06 Feb 2012, 4:22 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

I happen to believe the universe is this higher power.

That is what Einstein thought too, as far as I know. He wrote "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all being, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of men." His god were the laws that govern the universe and everything that exists within it. He believed that by increasing his knowledge about the universe, he would get closer to god / the entirety of all things.

I think it's a great way to reconcile spirituality and naturalism, even though I lack the spirituality gene and have to make do with the naturalism part

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06 Feb 2012, 4:25 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

Yes, I suppose a particular God would only be a more clearly defined concept of a Higher Power.

Quote:

What I would like to know is: What is the difference between god as in "some higher supernatural power" and your god? I mean, do you have a god that you worship or pray to? Do you live according to certain religiously inspired rules? Do you believe in an afterlife? If the answer to all these questions is No, where is the point in believing in a god that may or may not exist and may or may not care what you believe or do?

I don't have a God. I do not believe in any particular God. However, I am open to the idea of a Higher Power.

Well, I think it was Nietzsche who said (paraphrase): "A man who has his Why can endure any How."
Not saying the Why has to be something supernatural, but for some perhaps it does. Maybe some people are less easy to satisfy in this regard.

Question: Do you know if suicide rates are higher among atheists than theists?

Quote:

Haha, I'm sorry but that's not a clear description of a God I'm seeking with my eye.

Quote:

We don't really care what people believe as long as they leave us be.

Theists could argue the same thing. Only, what others believe always impacts you, whether directly or not. Your beliefs, or lackthereof, affect the way you conduct your life, and your life affects the lives of others. If you don't hold with the idea of a God who commands otherwise, you're probably going to be okay with abortion, whether or not you yourself ever choose to get one.
And though the religious person may not be affected in the way that they may not have to suffer any sort of forced abortion, it could surely affect their emotional state to know that others are opting for abortions that the fetus neither did nor did not choose. And we all know how much a persons emotional state affects their behavior.

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06 Feb 2012, 4:27 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Fnord wrote:

People have religious beliefs because it is easier to believe a convoluted lie than a complex truth.

That and add that the complex truth is one that comes with its own problems and leaves those who need a life script to follow completely in the wilderness. Its rather ironic in a dark sort of way that people quite often do fuction better on a lie than the truth and its largely because of what that truth is.

Inconvenient.

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06 Feb 2012, 4:30 pm

Fnord wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Fnord wrote:

People have religious beliefs because it is easier to believe a convoluted lie than a complex truth.

Inconvenient.

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06 Feb 2012, 4:31 pm

AngelRho wrote:

Let the doubters shoulder the burden of proof for a change.

What?

The burden of proof always lies on the person making the claim, not the sceptic.

By saying we have to prove our side to you, you are essentially saying "I'm sorry, I have no proof god exists, no one does, but I am not willing to look at the facts and admit it's unprovable."

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06 Feb 2012, 4:35 pm

abacacus wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

Let the doubters shoulder the burden of proof for a change.

OK. Then I am skeptical that God doesn't exist! If you are making the claim that God doesn't exist, it is STILL up to you to prove there is no God.

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06 Feb 2012, 4:40 pm

AngelRho wrote:

OK. Then I am skeptical that God doesn't exist! If you are making the claim that God doesn't exist, it is STILL up to you to prove there is no God.

Sorry, you still lose.

You have the belief, I don't. My claim is essentially "There is no evidence of god, therefore it is reasonable to not believe in god."

The burden of proof is on you, and in this debate it always will be.

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