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JNathanK
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26 Oct 2012, 9:20 pm

mikecartwright wrote:
No.


Saying time doesn't exist is just another way of saying that relativity in motion doesn't exist. Its blatantly false, because stuff obviously changes in relation to itself, and its a real phenomenon that needs to be accounted for. Our minds account for these changes, and if they weren't here, nothing would be aware of it. However, the fact nothing would be aware of it wouldn't make it cease to be, anymore than a tree falling in the woods without an observer to account for it would make it cease to be.

I think its finite and that there are aeons where time doesn't exist, like in the conditions of the pre-big bang singularity where motion and relativity was non-existent due to the universe being one homogenous meta-object with no contrast or boundaries to differentiate itself. However, a recognition of it being a fundamentally finite phenomenon is a far cry from it not existing. A lot of things are finite, like virtually any form that matter takes. However, its still real.

I think we may have evolved too so that the universe has an outlet to view the phenomenon we call time. I don't think it was necessarily a totally random process,but rather a tendency the universe organizes itself toward, not unlike like how a magnet naturally attracts metallic objects. After all, subjectivity is just self aware relativity. Were like the ever-changing flow of time reflecting on itself. Our self awareness is actually built around being able to store memories and gauge the contrast and change between present events and past events stored in memory. These changes in the material world would still exist regardless of us, but nothing would be aware of it without us.



Toy_Soldier
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03 Nov 2012, 12:59 pm

I forgot that you can go back in time. Just take away power.

JNathanK wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
No.


Saying time doesn't exist is just another way of saying that relativity in motion doesn't exist. Its blatantly false, because stuff obviously changes in relation to itself, and its a real phenomenon that needs to be accounted for. Our minds account for these changes, and if they weren't here, nothing would be aware of it. However, the fact nothing would be aware of it wouldn't make it cease to be, anymore than a tree falling in the woods without an observer to account for it would make it cease to be.

I think its finite and that there are aeons where time doesn't exist, like in the conditions of the pre-big bang singularity where motion and relativity was non-existent due to the universe being one homogenous meta-object with no contrast or boundaries to differentiate itself. However, a recognition of it being a fundamentally finite phenomenon is a far cry from it not existing. A lot of things are finite, like virtually any form that matter takes. However, its still real.

I think we may have evolved too so that the universe has an outlet to view the phenomenon we call time. I don't think it was necessarily a totally random process,but rather a tendency the universe organizes itself toward, not unlike like how a magnet naturally attracts metallic objects. After all, subjectivity is just self aware relativity. Were like the ever-changing flow of time reflecting on itself. Our self awareness is actually built around being able to store memories and gauge the contrast and change between present events and past events stored in memory. These changes in the material world would still exist regardless of us, but nothing would be aware of it without us.


Why can't things exsist is just a ever ongoing 'now' ? Why is time necessary for the universe to function ?



JNathanK
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03 Nov 2012, 7:22 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:

Why can't things exsist is just a ever ongoing 'now' ? Why is time necessary for the universe to function ?


Well it could exist solely as an ongoing now, and it has, but that would get pretty boring. In the pre-big bang singularity, all there was was the now with no relativity in motion. Energy was homogeneously distributed, and there was no variation to act as a relative reference point for anything. However when the singularity expanded into a heterogeneous relationship between material energy and empty space, things got a lot more interesting, and matter started to change in relationship to itself, thus creating time.

Ultimately, the ongoing now is eternal and all that there ever was or will be, but at finite intervals it interacts with this thing called time, which is a necessary ingredient for the the material universe. Whether its a sadistic demon or an angelic gift, it is what it is.