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Why Jews are smarter (as a group) than most groups.

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LKL
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06 Sep 2012, 5:26 pm

Oodain wrote:
more like constant change between several somewhat isolated groups(to prevent complete outmixing, reason below)

hybrid vigour while usefull is short lived over anthropological time, even in agriculture it only lasts a couple of generations, creating a stable variant is exceedingly difficult.

the essence of interbreeding remains the same.

While alleles do tend towards fixation over time, especially in small populations, outmixing and heterozygosity allows for greater independent assortment of genes (ie, the genes for cystic fibrosis and intelligence (if the latter does, indeed, have a set gene or genes) become unlinked, and thus independently selected against and for).



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06 Sep 2012, 5:50 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:

Ashkenazi Jews are, on average, the smartest group of people on the planet as meausred by the IQ scale. There are flaws with this scale, but it does have some correlation with reality.






Lies, damned lies, and statistics! :lol:


This is SO 1995.I know exactly where you're getting this from: The Bell Curve coauthored by Dr Hernstein(a jew, obviously). These "studies" have long since been debunked. While much has been learned about how certain genes expressed in brain cells play a role in the facilitation of learning, the genetic basis of *intelligence* as defined ITT isn't thoroughly understood. This is racial pseudoscience at its worst.

On the contrary, The Bell Curve was a piece of trash and I've debunked many of its points many times. My arguments on this point come only partly from the statistics about which groups score what on IQ tests, which you would realize if you had read more than one post of mine on this thread.



AspieRogue

06 Sep 2012, 5:57 pm

LKL wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:

Ashkenazi Jews are, on average, the smartest group of people on the planet as meausred by the IQ scale. There are flaws with this scale, but it does have some correlation with reality.






Lies, damned lies, and statistics! :lol:


This is SO 1995.I know exactly where you're getting this from: The Bell Curve coauthored by Dr Hernstein(a jew, obviously). These "studies" have long since been debunked. While much has been learned about how certain genes expressed in brain cells play a role in the facilitation of learning, the genetic basis of *intelligence* as defined ITT isn't thoroughly understood. This is racial pseudoscience at its worst.

On the contrary, The Bell Curve was a piece of trash and I've debunked many of its points many times. My arguments on this point come only partly from the statistics about which groups score what on IQ tests, which you would realize if you had read more than one post of mine on this thread.



Oh yeah? What other arguments do you have? Unless you can pinpoint the genes that code for above average intelligence and show some population genetics studies suggesting that these genes are more concentrated among Ashkenazim than other ethnic groups, I call malarkey.


Also, what evidence do you have the Jews continue to be overrepresented among 21st century geniuses? The top scientists of today are NOT jewish by majority!



AspieRogue

06 Sep 2012, 6:01 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Cultus_Diabolus wrote:
im not going to bother to read all of this thread, but i saw some people talking about the middle east and there lack of tech and cultural additions.

you know what algebra is? its a Arabic word! you know what the majority star names are, that's right Arabic! at one point the islamic/arabic culture was the center of intellectual thought. and in my opinion the spread of fundamentalism in the culture killed it as its now doing to our own.



The Islamic domains shone brightly from about 800 c.e. (our calendar) to 1300 c.e. and have gone dark since. The Islamic scholars saved the wisdom of Greece from being lost forever and re-exported back to Europe starting in the 13 th century c.e. For the last 700 years the Islamic domains have been intellectually retrograde compared with Europe and Asia. It was a good 500 years or so. Too bad it did not last.

ruveyn




NO. The Islamic scholars of the middle ages where disproportionately persian. In fact, these persian geniuses are what gave us the scientific method.


A gaping hole in Greek mathematics and Philosophy was their lack of the concept of Infinity. That's why you got things like Zeno's paradox. The concept of Infinity was first realized by ancient Indian mathematicians. In fact, I daresay that India, and not ancient Greece, is the true birthplace of logic and reductionist thought.



LKL
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06 Sep 2012, 6:12 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:

Ashkenazi Jews are, on average, the smartest group of people on the planet as meausred by the IQ scale. There are flaws with this scale, but it does have some correlation with reality.






Lies, damned lies, and statistics! :lol:


This is SO 1995.I know exactly where you're getting this from: The Bell Curve coauthored by Dr Hernstein(a jew, obviously). These "studies" have long since been debunked. While much has been learned about how certain genes expressed in brain cells play a role in the facilitation of learning, the genetic basis of *intelligence* as defined ITT isn't thoroughly understood. This is racial pseudoscience at its worst.

On the contrary, The Bell Curve was a piece of trash and I've debunked many of its points many times. My arguments on this point come only partly from the statistics about which groups score what on IQ tests, which you would realize if you had read more than one post of mine on this thread.



Oh yeah? What other arguments do you have? Unless you can pinpoint the genes that code for above average intelligence and show some population genetics studies suggesting that these genes are more concentrated among Ashkenazim than other ethnic groups, I call malarkey.


Also, what evidence do you have the Jews continue to be overrepresented among 21st century geniuses? The top scientists of today are NOT jewish by majority!

Aspie Rogue, please read through the whole thread and then continue flying off the handle only if your questions have not already been answered.



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06 Sep 2012, 6:14 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Cultus_Diabolus wrote:
im not going to bother to read all of this thread, but i saw some people talking about the middle east and there lack of tech and cultural additions.

you know what algebra is? its a Arabic word! you know what the majority star names are, that's right Arabic! at one point the islamic/arabic culture was the center of intellectual thought. and in my opinion the spread of fundamentalism in the culture killed it as its now doing to our own.



The Islamic domains shone brightly from about 800 c.e. (our calendar) to 1300 c.e. and have gone dark since. The Islamic scholars saved the wisdom of Greece from being lost forever and re-exported back to Europe starting in the 13 th century c.e. For the last 700 years the Islamic domains have been intellectually retrograde compared with Europe and Asia. It was a good 500 years or so. Too bad it did not last.

ruveyn




NO. The Islamic scholars of the middle ages where disproportionately persian. In fact, these persian geniuses are what gave us the scientific method.


A gaping hole in Greek mathematics and Philosophy was their lack of the concept of Infinity. That's why you got things like Zeno's paradox. The concept of Infinity was first realized by ancient Indian mathematicians. In fact, I daresay that India, and not ancient Greece, is the true birthplace of logic and reductionist thought.

The scientific method is owed to more than one group of people, the Greeks (specifically, Hippocrates) not the least.



AspieRogue

06 Sep 2012, 6:27 pm

LKL, the most ancient evidence for empiricism comes from India, rather than Greece.

But the formal scientific method, as it is used today, comes from Al-Haytham, a persian living in Baghdad. He corrected many of the scientific errors made by the ancient Greeks, notable Aristotle.



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06 Sep 2012, 7:02 pm

In order to avoid a derail, I am starting a new thread on the origins of the scientific method in the science and tech forum.



AspieRogue

06 Sep 2012, 7:39 pm

LKL wrote:
In order to avoid a derail, I am starting a new thread on the origins of the scientific method in the science and tech forum.


I re-read your posts ITT. Where are the citations to (multiple)statistical studies that show Ashkenazim as having higher IQ scores than any other defined ethnic group?



ruveyn
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06 Sep 2012, 8:55 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:
In order to avoid a derail, I am starting a new thread on the origins of the scientific method in the science and tech forum.


I re-read your posts ITT. Where are the citations to (multiple)statistical studies that show Ashkenazim as having higher IQ scores than any other defined ethnic group?


The Japanese and Chines are rather bright. They are smarter on average than non-Jewish Europeans.

(Sorry Aryans, you lose).

ruveyn



AspieRogue

06 Sep 2012, 9:17 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:
In order to avoid a derail, I am starting a new thread on the origins of the scientific method in the science and tech forum.


I re-read your posts ITT. Where are the citations to (multiple)statistical studies that show Ashkenazim as having higher IQ scores than any other defined ethnic group?


The Japanese and Chines are rather bright. They are smarter on average than non-Jewish Europeans.

(Sorry Aryans, you lose).

ruveyn



Recent studies show that TRUE ARYANS are even smarter than the Chinese, Japanese, and Jews combined. Funny how FEW jews there were in math and hard science throughout the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries! I don't buy this racial pseudoscience. Either get some genetic studies that highlight the frequency of the genes responsible for intelligence or STFU.



Oswald Teichmüller and Konrad Zuse, 100% aryan and spineless Nazis, made invaluable contributions to mathematics and computation respectively.



ruveyn
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06 Sep 2012, 9:26 pm

AspieRogue wrote:


Recent studies show that TRUE ARYANS are even smarter than the Chinese, Japanese, and Jews combined. Funny how FEW jews there were in math and hard science throughout the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries! I don't buy this racial pseudoscience. Either get some genetic studies that highlight the frequency of the genes responsible for intelligence or STFU.





Prior to the Enlightenment in Europe most Jews were religious and observant. Their profession and duty was the study of Torah. Spending too much time proving theorems would have been "betayl Torah" (ignoring the Torah). That is a major league no no for religious Jews.

After the Enlightenment things loosened up a quite bit and Jews got into the science and math business. Once they got into the business they did disproportionately well. After 1875 you will find a lot of first rate Jewish mathematicians and scientists in Europe. About 10 to 20 percent of the first line physicists (currently) are Jewish which is way out of proportion to the percentage of Jews in the population of the U.S., Canada and Europe. Even so, most of the top of the line mathematicians and physicists are non-Jews. Heck, the field of theoretical physics was -invented- by Galileo and Newton, neither of who were Jewish.,

ruveyn



AspieRogue

06 Sep 2012, 10:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:


Recent studies show that TRUE ARYANS are even smarter than the Chinese, Japanese, and Jews combined. Funny how FEW jews there were in math and hard science throughout the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries! I don't buy this racial pseudoscience. Either get some genetic studies that highlight the frequency of the genes responsible for intelligence or STFU.





Prior to the Enlightenment in Europe most Jews were religious and observant. Their profession and duty was the study of Torah. Spending too much time proving theorems would have been "betayl Torah" (ignoring the Torah). That is a major league no no for religious Jews.

After the Enlightenment things loosened up a quite bit and Jews got into the science and math business. Once they got into the business they did disproportionately well. After 1875 you will find a lot of first rate Jewish mathematicians and scientists in Europe. About 10 to 20 percent of the first line physicists (currently) are Jewish which is way out of proportion to the percentage of Jews in the population of the U.S., Canada and Europe. Even so, most of the top of the line mathematicians and physicists are non-Jews. Heck, the field of theoretical physics was -invented- by Galileo and Newton, neither of who were Jewish.,

ruveyn




I think it's pretty obvious that Jewish CULTURE is why Jews excelled in math and science. It has nothing to due to genetics. There was a Jewish Period of of math and science, which was the late 19th to mid 20th century. For much of the 19th century, mathematics and physics were dominated by Germans(goyim mind you) and before that the Frogs(18th century). I do wonder what academic Jews are up to today.

But I will give you this: Set Theory for some reason, is a branch of mathematics that is almost exclusively Jewish but now is attracting many Czechs and Poles.



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06 Sep 2012, 10:44 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:
In order to avoid a derail, I am starting a new thread on the origins of the scientific method in the science and tech forum.


I re-read your posts ITT. Where are the citations to (multiple)statistical studies that show Ashkenazim as having higher IQ scores than any other defined ethnic group?


The Japanese and Chines are rather bright. They are smarter on average than non-Jewish Europeans.

(Sorry Aryans, you lose).

ruveyn


How about artistic intelligence? As I had stated before, black Americans have had the most influence in music. And the Cro Magnons in prehistoric, Pre-Indo-European Europe - whose genes live on in a great number of Europeans and their descendents throughout the rest of the world, today - had led the way in artistic achievement with their cave art.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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07 Sep 2012, 7:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

How about artistic intelligence? As I had stated before, black Americans have had the most influence in music. And the Cro Magnons in prehistoric, Pre-Indo-European Europe - whose genes live on in a great number of Europeans and their descendents throughout the rest of the world, today - had led the way in artistic achievement with their cave art.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You bring up a good point. Abstract intelligence and the ability to solved problems and puzzles is one dimension among many of talent. Artistic ability is not linear in nature and is not particularly measurable so it is often an ignored dimension of human talent and genius.

There is also social artistry. The ability to get conflicting parties to act together in a useful manner. Leadership is an aspect of human intelligence and genius. Some leaders did almost impossible things in getting very hostile parties to bury their hatchets and act together for the common good.

ruveyn



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07 Sep 2012, 2:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

How about artistic intelligence? As I had stated before, black Americans have had the most influence in music. And the Cro Magnons in prehistoric, Pre-Indo-European Europe - whose genes live on in a great number of Europeans and their descendents throughout the rest of the world, today - had led the way in artistic achievement with their cave art.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You bring up a good point. Abstract intelligence and the ability to solved problems and puzzles is one dimension among many of talent. Artistic ability is not linear in nature and is not particularly measurable so it is often an ignored dimension of human talent and genius.

There is also social artistry. The ability to get conflicting parties to act together in a useful manner. Leadership is an aspect of human intelligence and genius. Some leaders did almost impossible things in getting very hostile parties to bury their hatchets and act together for the common good.

ruveyn


Absolutely. Men like Arminius in Germania, and Vercingetorix in Gaul had had enough leadership ability to gather hostile tribes together in order to fight the Romans, at a time when such Barbarian tribes had fought and killed each other more than they had hated the Romans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer