Are the Muslims really the biggest threat . . .

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thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 5:44 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

I hate the way some extremists have tried to "reclaim" the Union Flag and St George's Cross. They should simply be symbols of the countries they represent, not used to further sick ideologies. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the flag.

Having said that, I don't particularly like the design of the Union Flag (St Patrick's Cross is done badly, and there's no representation of Wales), but that's a separate issue.

If you ask me, the Union is between the wrong countries.

I'd rather see a Union between the celtic countries...Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Mann, Wales, Cornwall...Possibly Britanny and Basque if they want in.

England can eff off and do its own thing. Bloody WASP foreigners.

Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 5:45 pm

thomas81 wrote:

England can eff off and do its own thing. Bloody WASP foreigners.

We could always kick NI out of the UK and let the Republic come back in.

thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 5:49 pm

Tequila wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

England can eff off and do its own thing. Bloody WASP foreigners.

We could always kick NI out of the UK and let the Republic come back in.

NI shouldnt even have been created in the first place. It was artifically gerrymandered by its masters in London as a means of preserving the Unionist hegemony in the 6 counties. It has no democratic pretext at all.

Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 5:52 pm

thomas81 wrote:

No-one was alive in British Northern Ireland when these events took place. Go on, trot out the 800 years line whilst you're at it.

Hold a border poll tomorrow, next week, next year or in ten years for me. I suspect it will show a considerable majority of Northern Irish people (most Protestants and a considerable portion of Catholics) wanting to remain within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 5:56 pm

Tequila wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

No-one was alive in British Northern Ireland when these events took place.

No one in Northern Ireland was alive in 1922?

Tequila wrote:

Go on, trot out the 800 years line whilst you're at it.

I wasn't planning to.

Tequila wrote:

Hold a border poll tomorrow, next week, next year or in ten years for me. I suspect it will show a considerable majority of Northern Irish people (most Protestants and a considerable portion of Catholics) wanting to remain within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I don't know what you're ranting about. My point is that prior to 1922, Northern Ireland as an entity never existed. No referendum was held then, or since. Its therefore meaningless to hold a supposed democratic referendum in a political entity that held no democratic basis behind its very existance.

Besides which we're going off the beaten track on the issue of Islamic extremism.

Last edited by thomas81 on 04 Sep 2012, 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hopper
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04 Sep 2012, 5:57 pm

Tequila wrote:

Worship your God if you like, just don't bring me into it, don't demand entrance to this country if you're not a national (though really this is the government's fault), don't commit crimes in the name of it (again the government's fault for not applying the law fairly) and don't ask for special treatment. Not much to ask.

You happy about not being included on it separately?

You do talk arse.

I live in Wales, but I'm not Welsh. I quite like the flag, though, cos it's got a dragon on it. A f*****g dragon.

I was born in Spain to English parents, grew up in Birmingham, my Grandparents (maternal ones - single mother) were Scottish and Scots-Irish. Grew up under Thatcher, who never lost an opportunity to parade the flag whilst slandering my family, and the aforementioned NF incidents. Perpetual 'I don't get it' outsiderness of AS. Mix it up and it'll make Nationalism a nonsense.

Bill Hicks has an interesting idea for flags:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKy-xPq178[/youtube]

Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 6:00 pm

thomas81 wrote:

No one was in Northern Ireland was alive in 1922?

Very few in NI today were alive in Northern Ireland in 1922. Pretty much no-one would remember the state's foundation. You'd have to be about 100 to remember the state's foundation in 1921 if you were ten years old.

thomas81 wrote:

I don't know what you're ranting about. My point is that prior to 1922, Northern Ireland as an entity never existed. Its therefore meaningless to hold a supposed democratic referendum in a political entity that held no democratic basis behind its very existance.

You don't agree that the Unionists had the right to opt out of Irish Home Rule, even though they held a majority in the north-east of the island?

I've discussed this topic with too many people too many times. Carson should have been Prime Minister of NI (although he didn't want to be) and not the sectarian idiots they had post-1921. The Ulster Unionists' failure to heed his advice not to mistreat Catholics led to many, many problems later on as we all know.

thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 6:03 pm

Tequila wrote:

The only reason they 'opted out' was to create a artificial dividing line between themselves and the supposed inferior Irish. There was no credible cultural distinction and was essentially a smokescreen simply to mantain Britains imperialist agenda on this island.

In short it was an awful precedence for which to start a country.

Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 6:05 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Hardly - it was the Unionists' desire to remain in the UK that led to the birth of Northern Ireland. Britain's hands were tied really. I bet that without the presence of the Unionists, they would have given the entire island home rule (and eventual independence).

They did a bad job of partition though.

thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 6:10 pm

Tequila wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

The basis for their desire is precisely their mistaken belief that they are intrinsically socially and culturally superior to the rest of Ireland. England has a lot to answer for in this respect because they authored much of the hibernophobic material in the popular press during the gentrification of the island. Considering the treasures and resources Britain has invested in mantaining a presence here, something tells me there is more at stake than the feelings of 750 000 people who aren't even in a position to elect figures into Westminster.

AceOfSpades
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04 Sep 2012, 6:11 pm

thomas81 wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

In the last few decades, the majority of terrorist attacks have been committed in the name of Islam.

If we define terrorism as the use of violence to acheive political ends, then the vast majority of terrorist attacks have been committed in the name of capitalism. Which, to answer the OP really is the biggest threat to mankind.

The only difference is, these attacks were sanctioned and carried out by powerful nations rather than by outlawed groups. To put it into context, the 9/11 hijackings cost around 3000 lives. The occupation of Iraq, the blitz on Baghdad and associated activities cost around 250 000 lives. All this was on the back of a fabricated story and lies about WMD as a precursor to hijack the oil supplies.

It seems that political violence becomes acceptable once the size of the perpetrating body is large enough and/or carries enough political currency.

Um yeah way to go off-topic. I was clearly comparing Christian terrorism to Islamic terrorism and you took it as an opportunity to play with semantics and soapbox about the evils of capitalism. Just because I used the definition of terrorist as most of us know it, doesn't mean it's an invitation to go lecture me on how politicians use propaganda to gain popular support for their agendas (Noooo really? Who would've ever thought?). If you really wanna know though, I don't have strong feelings about Afghanistan but I'm against Iraq.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 04 Sep 2012, 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

puddingmouse
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04 Sep 2012, 6:11 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Tequila wrote:

TM wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

He just admitted he said that now. What more do you want?

Again, culture not race. Indian culture = Ok, Pakistani culture = Questionable etc. Nothing to do with skin color and all to do with heritage and values.

Indeed. It's not that I am against Islam entirely. Just the violent, intolerant, backward interpretation. I was reading Ataturk the other day and thought to myself: "What a fine place the world would be if the whole of the Muslim world thought like he did."

Even if we're talking in terms of violent islam, it still gets disproportionately unfair amounts of debate.

More innocent people are dying as a result of America and Britains prolonged occupation of other countries, than in the history of islamic terrorism put together.

Why is ideologically grounded violence in the interests of the status quo so acceptable?

It's not all about terrorism. It's about feminism and gay rights, as well as other forms of human rights.

Islamic terrorism concerns me very little. The deeply patriarchal culture my neighbours live under does (as do all forms of patriarchy, but I believe they have it worse).

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thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 6:13 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Those semantics and popular interpretations of what terrorism means have already been skewed by the establishment and the gutter media, that was my point in the first place.

puddingmouse
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04 Sep 2012, 6:13 pm

Tequila wrote:

The man who runs the newsagent where my mum buys her newspaper from has far better smelling curry than the local curry houses.

Was that statement deliberately lame-sounding?

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AceOfSpades
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04 Sep 2012, 6:15 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Those semantics and popular interpretations of what terrorism means have already been skewed by the establishment and the gutter media, that was my point in the first place.

Sigh...

No, your point was irrelevant. I was comparing Christian terrorism to Islamic terrorism. I didn't mention the US Army or capitalism to begin with, PERIOD. I'm well aware of the media being used as a means to propaganda thank you very much, but that's not what I wanted to discuss so I didn't want to go there in the first place.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 04 Sep 2012, 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 6:16 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Was that statement deliberately lame-sounding?

Make up your own mind.

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