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OliveOilMom
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22 Sep 2012, 1:03 pm

Mike1 wrote:
Only the rich plantation owners could afford to buy slaves during the time of the Civil War. A lot of Southerners were still racist even though they didn't own slaves. A lot of Northerners were racist too during that time even though slavery was illegal in the North. I'd say that flying a Confederate flag doesn't necessarily mean that someone is racist. It could mean that, or it could mean that they're a Southern separatist who blames Northern politicians for the bad decisions of the federal government. They also could be flying the flag because they're mad about Northern stereotypes of Southerners and they want to show that they're proud to be a Southerner.


Or, it's decoration and just represents the South to them. It's a Southern symbol, displayed by Southern people. Sure, those things you mentioned could be true, but usually it's more along the lines of "Hey, let's get a rebel flag for that flagpole why don't we?" It's a very common image down here, and it's on so much stuff as it is, so if you have a flag pole why not put the actual flag on it? After all, it's on your wallet, your belt buckle, your mudflaps on your truck, and your wife has it tattooed on her right boob.


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JakobVirgil
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22 Sep 2012, 1:28 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I don't know if that's my white privilege talking.


How can you have "white privilege" if you never accepted it in the first place? That sounds like a BS theory designed to incite self-hatred.



Exactly.


Yes because we only have privileges we ask for.
Perfect crystalline logic.
What I have the right of return and I never asked for that.


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ruveyn
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22 Sep 2012, 8:06 pm

Misslizard wrote:
There was a really good show on one of the History channels on Sherman on Georgia,it did not portray him in a favorable light,I wish I could recall the name.There is no way he was a nice man,a cruel alcoholic a-hole.


Uncle Billy was not a heavy drinker. U.S. Grant hit the sauce more..

Uncle Billy hated the rebels with blue and purple passion and it was his goal (which he achieved) to wreck the south so badly it could no longer carry on war against the Union. His plan was (to use his words) make Georgia howl. Which he did. Then he caused South Carolina (where the secession began) to scream in agony.

He was not a nice man. He wanted to end the war as quickly as possible and he realized the only way to do this was to wreak havoc and ruination upon the Southrons. He waged (to put it in his words) "hard war" or what we would call total war. That meant he went after civilians and their property. If he had air planes he would have bombed the southern cities and towns flat.

ruveyn



Misslizard
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22 Sep 2012, 8:26 pm

Yes,I don't doubt he would have nuked us if he could.Doesn't war s&@k.



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22 Sep 2012, 8:27 pm

I own a CSA flag for novelty reasons as well as my deep interest in the US Civil War. I sometimes fly it at barbecues chez moi, people usually respond positively or don't recognize it.


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Misslizard
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22 Sep 2012, 8:30 pm

Vigilans,if you fly it down here women will make you lots of sandwiches. :lol:



Kraichgauer
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22 Sep 2012, 10:28 pm

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
If you like that OliveOilMom, I wrote a song about spanking called Spank the Naughty Blonde. Before people criticize the song, note two things from the lyrics. It says "She likes spanking" and "It's all in fun."

It used to be one of the most popular songs from the band I founded in the early 1990s (R Band), but I have had negative reactions to it from females in the audience the last few times I've performed it publicly. It's a fun song to play, with some rock parts and some blues parts to it, but apparently most women are offended by it!

The good news is according to a famous quotation of mine from the late 1980s, that proves this song is rock and roll. I used to say (and still do sometimes) that "If nobody gets offended and nothing is broken, it ain't rock and roll!" On the other hand though, I do not want to alienate half of my potential audience! I still might play it publicly sometimes depending on the crowd.


I just played your song for my wife, who is blonde, and (aherm) has a sort of fetish for spanking. I told her it ought to be her theme song. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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22 Sep 2012, 10:31 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Dear Miss OliveOilMom,bet you didn't realize you stirred up a hornets nest :lol:
Why do they make so much fun of the way we talk?At least we got FLAVOR !
We speak the king's English.after all Elvis was the king.
What about all our contributions to American culture?Blues,bluegrass,zydeco,rock-a-Billy,B.B.Q.,sweet tea,cream pies,fried chicken,fried okra,fried green tomatoes,he'll,we can fry anything and make it good!The works of Faulkner,O' Conner ,.the architecture,Johnny Cash(my homeboy!) and I could just go on and on.I'm going outside now to pick me some collard greens,okra and other good southern food,Yum.


For the record, I think William Faulkner was one of America's greatest writers, and what I've read of Flannery O'Conner's stuff, I liked.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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22 Sep 2012, 10:37 pm

Dear Kraichgauer,
Glad to here it, Faulkner's As I Lay Dying is one of my favorites.They say the arrival of air-conditioning was the death of the great Southern novel,as a musician once said"you cant play the blues in an air conditioned room".



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22 Sep 2012, 11:28 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Dear Kraichgauer,
Glad to here it, Faulkner's As I Lay Dying is one of my favorites.They say the arrival of air-conditioning was the death of the great Southern novel,as a musician once said"you cant play the blues in an air conditioned room".


I loved A Rose For Emily. Though Faulkner didn't write horror, that short story is counted as one of the greatest horror stories of all time.
If you've ever seen the movie Barton Fink, you'll recognize one of the characters as a thinly disguised William Faulkner. One of my all time favorite movies. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Sep 2012, 12:06 am

Why do they call it "The War of Northern Aggression" when the South started it anyway?
I do think it's weird that Southerners want to glorify a war that was basically started by a bunch of Southern Aristocrats who tricked a bunch of pig ignorant farm boys to fight for slavery.
It's like trying to glorify the 1942 Philadelphia Philies (who were 42-109) or even the 1899 Cleveland Spiders (20-134)
As for racism, yeah you can't separate the Confederacy or the Confederate flag from it entirely.



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23 Sep 2012, 12:33 am

Dear Kraichgauer,
This is part of an essay by Paul Greenberg from the Ark Democrat-Gazette,it is a good read.
What is the South?

"What's the South like?"said the man in the white suit."That's what they all ask.Which South do you mean-the antebellum mansion,the fly-specked roadhouse,or the latest of the New Souths,the sunbelt?Or one of the uncountable other Souths? And which image is the facade for which? Do not be quick to decide.It is not easy to see what culture is supplanting the other.The professional Southerner may turn out to be all leaf and no roots;the most Southern of us all may never think on what it means to be Southern.
To be Southern is to live by the side of the road and board up the windows to outsiders.
"The South is driving along a Mississippi back road in the dead heat of a hot Sunday afternoon listening to a black preacher on the radio praising the Lord in half song,half sermon-as close as contemporary man can come to the original spirit of the Psalms."
"The key to that wholeness is the past.It is the only thing that lasts.'The past is never dead ' said Faulkner.'It is not even past'.Though it lingers longer in some places than others- Like in New Orleans and in the nameless little cotton towns one passes through on the way to somewhere else.
" We are the only part of the country to have been defeated explicitly,and defeat lasts longer than victory and in some ways is sweeter.Whether we learned anything from defeat and occupation is problematic;we were not so much instructed as fascinated by the experience.It's effect has not been cautionary but romantic.The politicians we honor are not the most effective or successful ,but the dreamiest.How else explain the worship of Jefferson Davis?
"Southernism itself is a curious,alien patriotism,the product of both America and of the separate nation we were for four long,arduous years,perhaps longer.We are still a different country in the important informal ways that are most enduring.The honorable Southerner,like General Lee and Admiral Semmes,is still on parole,sincerely wishing to live up to the terms of his pardon,but without violating some interior honor.
"What's the South? It is a reflection in an assortment of fragmented mirrors- some warped,others beveled and tarnished,some much to clear for comfort,still others made of plastic.And there is no way to tell what is the sure image.The best course is to depend on none of them,but to approach the subject without preconceived or received ideas,which,for a Southerner,is an impossibility".

Hope you enjoyed it,it's not in it's entirety,I'm too tired to type anymore.



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23 Sep 2012, 12:50 am

Misslizard wrote:
Dear Kraichgauer,
This is part of an essay by Paul Greenberg from the Ark Democrat-Gazette,it is a good read.
What is the South?

"What's the South like?"said the man in the white suit."That's what they all ask.Which South do you mean-the antebellum mansion,the fly-specked roadhouse,or the latest of the New Souths,the sunbelt?Or one of the uncountable other Souths? And which image is the facade for which? Do not be quick to decide.It is not easy to see what culture is supplanting the other.The professional Southerner may turn out to be all leaf and no roots;the most Southern of us all may never think on what it means to be Southern.
To be Southern is to live by the side of the road and board up the windows to outsiders.
"The South is driving along a Mississippi back road in the dead heat of a hot Sunday afternoon listening to a black preacher on the radio praising the Lord in half song,half sermon-as close as contemporary man can come to the original spirit of the Psalms."
"The key to that wholeness is the past.It is the only thing that lasts.'The past is never dead ' said Faulkner.'It is not even past'.Though it lingers longer in some places than others- Like in New Orleans and in the nameless little cotton towns one passes through on the way to somewhere else.
" We are the only part of the country to have been defeated explicitly,and defeat lasts longer than victory and in some ways is sweeter.Whether we learned anything from defeat and occupation is problematic;we were not so much instructed as fascinated by the experience.It's effect has not been cautionary but romantic.The politicians we honor are not the most effective or successful ,but the dreamiest.How else explain the worship of Jefferson Davis?
"Southernism itself is a curious,alien patriotism,the product of both America and of the separate nation we were for four long,arduous years,perhaps longer.We are still a different country in the important informal ways that are most enduring.The honorable Southerner,like General Lee and Admiral Semmes,is still on parole,sincerely wishing to live up to the terms of his pardon,but without violating some interior honor.
"What's the South? It is a reflection in an assortment of fragmented mirrors- some warped,others beveled and tarnished,some much to clear for comfort,still others made of plastic.And there is no way to tell what is the sure image.The best course is to depend on none of them,but to approach the subject without preconceived or received ideas,which,for a Southerner,is an impossibility".

Hope you enjoyed it,it's not in it's entirety,I'm too tired to type anymore.


Thank you for the essay. To be sure, the history of my home region of the far west probably has a different mindset when compared to the south. Instead of viewing our part of the country as both American, and separate from the rest of America (due to secession), we've always seen the westward migration which created my region as a uniquely American phenomenon. Particularly since much of that migration had occurred post Civil War, when the notion of states rights was on the wane. Rather than living in one one state for generations, a western pioneer might start out in South Dakota, move to Oregon, then ending up in Washington in one life time (example provided being my Dad's people's history). And such, there is no real identification with regionalism before being an American in general.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Sep 2012, 1:00 am

True,my son is seventh generation Arkansan.I think all the regions of the states should celebrate the differences that make is unique.When President Lincoln pardoned all the Confederates instead of hanging them for treason he defused a situation which could have us still at each others throats.God bless the man for his wisdom.I'm sorry for what happened to him ,he was a great and noble soul.



Kraichgauer
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23 Sep 2012, 1:10 am

Misslizard wrote:
True,my son is seventh generation Arkansan.I think all the regions of the states should celebrate the differences that make is unique.When President Lincoln pardoned all the Confederates instead of hanging them for treason he defused a situation which could have us still at each others throats.God bless the man for his wisdom.I'm sorry for what happened to him ,he was a great and noble soul.


He certainly was. And you know something - Lincoln allegedly had had the chance to be appointed territorial governor of Washington territory. But he was supposed to have turned it down Because his wife Mary Todd had complained about the wild Indians and outlaws - both of which certainly posed a threat to law abiding settlers. I don't know if it's true for sure, but it certainly makes an interesting story! 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Sep 2012, 1:42 am

Just realized I forgot to claim Tennessee Williams as one of our assets,and General MacArthur, and Helen Gurley Brown.While Hemmingway was not a Southerner I think he wrote a novel while staying in Piggot,Ar.And Mick Jagger and Keith Richards got busted in south Ar,that's just funny trivia,not really pertinent but funny.