Why do Christians not follow the bible?

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I agree, I see many people who claim to be devout Christians, yet their action seem contrary to their words. One aspect that has always caught my attention, particularly with super-churches, is that a lot of these people are extremely wealthy. And the Bible is pretty clear in it's message about the rich ("And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."). Not to mention I find many of the most "devout" to often express some pretty hateful views of others who are different, and try to force their own views upon them. And don't even get me started on the rates on premarital sex nowadays!

MOST Christians worldwide belong to denominations that either accept the fact evolution happens or say whether or not it does makes no difference to their faith. There is a Clergy Letter Project signed by more than 12,000 members of Clergy of various (mainly Christian) denominations who say they do not have a problem accepting the reality of the fact of evolution. Some Churches have Evolution Sunday around Darwin's birthday too. I have even seen a preacher who wrote a book and tours the country saying "Thank God for Evolution!" Unfortunately, this is not enough. The minority of denominations that deny the fact of evolution are SO vocal that even many people who belong to churches that do NOT have a problem accepting this fact are not sure about whether or not evolution happens. That's sad.

While banning the sale of alcohol and swearing may decrease fun a bit, the fundie Christian denominations that are rabidly anti-science are doing far more to harm our society, our species and our planet by sabotaging the science education of generations of American schoolchildren. No matter how real evolution is, and no matter that every attempt to discredit it fails miserably in courts, in the court of public opinion the liars have done a great job to instill doubt in the minds of half the adults of this country. Even though evolution is on the curriculum, many high school science teachers won't touch it to avoid controversy, or sometimes because they themselves are brainwashed idiots incapable of reasoning critically from the evidence.

I actually wouldn't be opposed to creationism being taught in a science classroom, as a teaching exercise, but only if it were to be done honestly, not the mealy-mouthed LIES, denials and distortions spread by creationists. Students could be shown the evidence and taught to reason critically for themselves. IF IT WERE DONE HONESTLY it would immediately be obvious to everyone that all the evidence supports evolution, none supports a literal reading of Genesis, also that no evidence falsifies evolution, but some evidence falsifies a literal reading of Genesis. IF THIS WERE DONE HONESTLY, also assuming that there were enough teachers familiar enough with the subject able to teach it, then students would go home crying to their parents that they were being LIED TO BY THEIR PREACHER.

Obviously this is not going to happen, not in this country. I'm just saying that if those who are fighting so hard to get their religious views pushed into science classrooms where they do not belong, if those people REALLY got their wish and their religious beliefs were to be put to scientific scrutiny, you would have state-sponsored schools teaching children that their parents' religion is LYING to them about the real world. I don't blame the preachers. They rely on creationist web sites that purport to spread truth but are instead easily shown to be spreading denial, distortion and out and out falsehoods. This is easily shown. I couldn't make this stuff up. It is incredible that such blatant LIARS are believed by so many people who are otherwise rational and have good hearts.

The biggest problem for fundies is their opinion that if evolution IS true, then that must mean the whole Bible is false. Well, that may be so. But consider too that the people who wrote the Bible also thought the sun went around the earth, and that the earth is flat. Most Christian denominations no longer insist that the sun goes around the earth. They have come to terms with the physical reality of how things are, not the way they think they should be based on a particular style of interpretation of a Bronze Age myth.

I have heard some Christians say that evolution is a lie from the pit of Hell. They are apparently either ignorant of the evidence, too stupid to understand it, insane, or denying it for some wicked reason. IF evolution IS a lie, then it is GOD who is the liar by planting so much evidence of so many different types that clearly show it happens. IF evolution is a lie, it comes directly from the throne of Heaven, not from the pit of Hell.

Just throwing these in here.
Religion used to hold society together. I think we need to move beyond that point.
If you take everything in holy books literally there will be problems.
And of course: Don't kill people over their beliefs, or try to impose yours upon anyone.

That, children, is today's lesson on religion. Think about it.

Last edited by g2 on 13 Oct 2012, 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Something of interest i have read before that may interest people in this thread
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/0 ... 27701.html

Christianity cannot be put into practice except at the cost of one's own life and the lives of those he/she holds dear. Christianity advocates self abnegation and sacrifice. Screw that.

ruveyn

This really does say it best. I've been to a few churches in my particular denomination (which praises itself on digging into the Bible to follow it as well as possible) but many of their members were the kinds of hypocrites that give fuel to the arguments made by people on here who LOATHE religion with every fiber of their being.

But there's always some who are genuinely good people, full of love and kindness for other people...

What leads me to take religion less seriously is the mainstream Christian emphasis on rules, power-plays, and money.

I can't recall the last time I was involved in an ongoing church-sponsored program that provided practical assistance to the poor and homeless.

I've had to get involved in those things on my own.

I fully understand where you are coming from, there are commandments that God makes of the Nations in the old testament. But a large sum of the commandments made in the old testament were specifically for the Jews, some of which were specifically for that time period it was written as Moses was setting up this young republic.

I also feel that the problem you run into ALL THE TIME when you don't take the time to understand the old testament is that you loose much of the understanding under which Christ operated under, and you cannot have Jesus without the Jew that he was. You are not required to follow jewish laws but you are required to understand why they were instituted. They were not without reason. They did not exist to propitiate God. They had a purpose, and shaped Jesus's own views. You preserve memory through ritual, and the memory of events that were seminal in the Jews understanding of the world that would lay the foundation upon which Christ and his message is based on is just as much your inheritance as it is your responsibility to both understand it, and share it with the world.

It was a tremendous price for a man to pay... you're forced to marry her and you are never allowed to divorce her, the only way out is your death, hers through murder, or her consent. If there is any suspicion of rape, she is always given the benefit of the doubt, unless the society has it out for her or her family, then your screwed either way and there many other worse alternatives anyways if thats the case. Fifty shekels of silver is also a lot of coin in those days for the price of virginity, ESPECIALLY if she then choses NOT to marry you. Which I can't imagine a women who was raped then wanting to marry her rapist, though whatever it was, rape or pre-marital sex, she is fully absolved of the deed, her father's house enriched, and he is accountable for his actions.

Marriage was what happened, its what men and women did, its not like she had a career waiting for her or other extra curricular hobbies to keep her preoccupied. It was your societal duty to marry, have children, etc. The only option for most women throughout history was marriage, most often it was not based on who you were in love with but who had property, who was very skilled and/or had high social value, and other criteria that could then better her standing in life and in her society.

)n many cultures TODAY and until recently even in our own country, a raped women is done for. Raped = used, no benefit of the doubt given, and you are ruined. You live with the horror of it, and if you go public, there are far worse societal reactions that are not in your benefit. They did not have DNA testing back then, but the benefit of the doubt, protecting the name of raped women, and making men responsible and accountable for their actions was a revolution in human history, a far more elevated take then most places in the world in 2012.

"Judge lest not ye be judged"

The MOST ignored phrase in the bible then AND now. I find it hilarious when a generic christian goes on bashing other people's beliefs and sexual orientations.

If you wish to follow the Bible, you'd have to learn how to not speak in services and submit to the man (if you're a female), wear no jewelry or braided hair, make no decisions about financial matters or be in any position of authority (for authority is to be rendered unto the man, the head of the home, as per 1Timothy 2:9-13). If you happen to be raped in a city, you'd better hope someone heard your screams, otherwise you must be stoned (Deuteronomy 22:23-24). In order for a female to "be saved," they must not only believe, but also bear children (1Timothy 2:15). You must also learn to accept the killing of persons who do not follow your religion, especially those who practice witchcraft or idolatry (Deuteronomy 13:13-19; 17:12, Leviticus 20: 10, 13, 27, Leviticus 21:9, 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 + many more)...

Everything I have said is in the Bible. If one truly wishes to follow this doctrine, they cannot cherry-pick the "good parts" and ignore the "undesirable parts."

The New Testament does not abrogate the Old Testament, otherwise the 10 Commandments would no longer apply and Jesus would have not existed on earth prior to the crucifixion. The way many people who do not wish to acknowledge the more violent portions of their Scriptures seem to like pulling the "well that was the Old Testament" argument.

It is also a commandment to carry a shovel to bury one's sh*t should he have to take a dump in the great outdoors. Deut 23:12

By the way the 613 commandments in the TNKH are for Jews, not Gentiles. Gentiles are only required to keep the seven Noachic Laws.

Christians never had to keep all the commandments given in the TNKH.

ruveyn

Thank the Lord! That would be a real pain in the ass to have to carry a shovel everywhere I go outside.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I don't see how anyone could follow the entire bible! There's so much nonsense in there that the only reasonable way to be a Christian is to be very selective about which parts to believe in. That's what I used to do, before I had to face logic.

Do you just google these up? Here is a more accurate translation that is fair to the text

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24)

"If there be a damsel that is a virgin betrothed unto a man, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die: the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife; so thou shalt put away the evil from the midst of thee."

But read further:

(Deuteronomy 22:23-25)

"But if the man find the damsel that is betrothed in the field, and the man take hold of her, and lie with her; then the man only that lay with her shall die."

They dwelled in tents, the implication of the law and the way it was understood was that if your having sex in a tent, you will make no noise to hide the act of adultry. Say for example he is raping her, has closed her mouth, or has threatened her with some physical violence and she is intimidated into the act, then she can't scream out. The torah fully understands this.

Anyone who reads this fairly understands that this isn't limited to the field or the town, the point is that wherever there is suspicion that it was against her will, it is a non-issue for the israelite girl, 3000 years ago. If she was raped, she is totally absolved of any punishment. A girl in 2012 in much of the world today, be it Africa, the middle east, Asia, they are done if they are not a virgin. If blood guilt and honor killing doesn't end her life, wearing the baggage of loose and whore will. She may not get a chance at marriage. Many found and unfortunate punishments for the price of virginity. Even the torah who has many lines about virginity, its price, and punishments regarding it have a far more elevated view of it then many in China, Indonesia, Arabia, etc.

It was, amongst many others, revolutionary for 3000 years ago.

If there is something that men become during war time, the tendency throughout history has been to drop the rules of life, and the text is demanding that you are to conduct yourselves appropriately, regardless of whether you are at home, or away on a military campaign. The normal civilizing rules have not been dropped. If one lets this principle governs their actions beyond covering your excrements, they will be more then likely to go out of their way in many other respects to uphold ethics.

And thank you for pointing that out.

God has given all of humanity 7 laws to follow, and unless you are Jewish, the other laws and commandments are not for you to follow. Christians do not have to keep those laws ment for Jews, but it is to their detriment if they do not take the time to understand the principles that they are ment to teach.