The true murderers of the abortion debate

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^ Also, since I don't see a zef as a human being and I don't attach a morally positive value to it being born, I don't see the point in artificial wombs to prevent abortion. This is because I can't see why abortion is a bad thing. There are people in this world who would rather actually not bring any more humans into existence.

No offense taken. I'm a happy heretic, and my family are lapsed Catholics for the most part; my surviving grandparents still occasionally attend church, but they're the only ones. I do work at a Catholic hospital, but they're fairly low-key about pushing the dogma (I got proselytized at more when I was at the University than I do at work). Sometimes I take offense when people go Catholic-bashing because they're talking about my family, but the Catholic heirarchy is loathed even by practicing American Catholics these days (with the possible exception of the nuns, who were recently audited by the Vatican for being 'too obsessed with social justice, the poor, and health care,' and 'not obsessed enough with gays and abortion.' My hospital (run by nuns), which for years have been performing post-c-section tubal ligations with only a surgeon's signature that it was 'medically necessary,' recently clamped down on this due to pressure from on-high, leading to the resignation of several top Ob-Gyns from hospital priviledges. The US nuns are now being overseen by a priest to make sure that they toe the line - so, I do think that there's a strong element of misogyny in there, not just a love of suffering).

There's an element of misogyny in all religions (even Buddhism). I think the love of suffering and the misogyny are intertwined with Catholicism because there's this spiritual awe of women left over from pagan times mixed with the bloodiness of the theology. Mary is an honoured figure, but she's often crying next to her dead son, or she has 7 swords stuck in her heart. The misogyny is weirdly different in Catholicism, though I guess you're right that it's still misogyny.

I work at a college that was set up by nuns to provide education for girls for in 17th century. The nuns still are the directors but there's not many of them left. I thought about being a nun when I was younger, which is funny as the whole mindset of Catholicism chafes against me and always has done. I guess I just liked the idea of a life withdrawn from social noise and dedicated to something higher.

I think the fact that I'm geographically closer to Ireland has something to do with it. Ireland was (is) poor and life was hard there for so long, so I think the church capitalised on the suffering of the people by making it part of their beliefs. I suppose this is true of any poor country with a lot interference of religion in people's lives.

^all true; religion loses a lot of power when people are content with /this/ life.

I've thought that I would have made a decent nun, too, but I couldn't stand having to cow-tow to male priests just because they were men (and thus could /be/ priests), regardless of their qualifications; the recent inquisition has reinforced to me that I was correct to avoid it. Also, I don't agree with pretty much any of the theology, but monks and nuns have gotten around that in the past.

100 years in the future if a woman gets raped she goes to a clinic and the embryo is transplanted into an artificial womb. I think I'm getting closer to winning the abortion debate although I won't live long enough to see myself win.

That would not be ethical.

Who is going to take care of the baby that grows up from the artifical womb? Tax payers? The mother?

How about we just let unwanted unborns die?

When a child is born from the artificial womb society as a whole will take care of the baby. The technology saves the woman from the pain of child birth and eases the financial burden. Those who do not accept the new technology will live outside of the City.

The new society also solves the rape problem.

Yes Big Brother...

I don't understand the effort in saving a cluster of cells that lacks both the sentience or autonomy to be considered a viable human.

Why stop at fetuses? Why not develop an artifical ovary to save all the unutilised sperms?



Awesome, then you put the child through the unnecessary trauma of not experiencing a natural infancy or female figure to associate as a natural mother.

Congrats kid, you were a state science project, mull that one over.

Eases.

Abortion removes it.

Your idea is unethical no matter the technologic level.

Allow abortion without silly embryo transfers.

Abortion does not a;together remove the burden because kids are still going to be born if a woman chooses not to get an abortion. Even if additional babies are born with the artificial womb technology, the burden will still be light because the burden will be shared. The burden of Octo-Mom then becomes a drop in the bucket. The child may be so called deprived of a natural childbirth however the child will become assimilated in a larger family as a whole and will effectively have a thousand Mothers.

and that has helped how many orphans?

last i checked we cant even take care of the unwanted babies we already have.

Actually they will exist at the expense of the rest of us. Of course the Government will see that the money is raised out of tax revenue.

It will be the adventures of Joshuah, Son of None.

ruveyn

Abortion does not do something when it is not used.

For example the proponents of abortion say that it is a good form of population control. However abortion does not stop people from breeding.