18 Nov 2012, 2:53 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
DerStadtschutz wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's where I expect the FBI and ATF to do their jobs, and step in when dangerous people are planning to do insane things with guns.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I have 3 words for you...
Waco
Ruby Ridge.
I'm a progressive and I strongly condemn how the government reacted to those incidents. When dealing with insane nut-jobs who are only a danger to themselves the last thing you want to do is bully and provoke them.
Both Waco and Ruby Ridge were seriously mishandled by the Government.
I would also point out that there are quite a few "militia" groups in the US that are fairly harmless as long as they are left alone. As I recall, there was a news report that MacVee was actually kicked out of a "militia" group cause they thought he had a screw loose.
On the other hand, there are also "militia" groups that are considerably dangerous, so the trick I guess is not to antagonize the ones that are generally harmless, while the ones that are dangerous need to be monitored.
The militia that the mainstream news media likes to report on are the ones with members that sleep with foil around their heads and by day
spray-paint "beware of ZOG" on everything.
18 Nov 2012, 2:55 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
18 Nov 2012, 3:45 pm
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well then you’re living in fear over something you can’t do anything about.
Besides, to you anyone who’s not a dyed in the wool liberal is a right wing “extremist”
Funny how they end up with all the guns they want anyway isn’t it…..
Not to mention the places where gun laws are the most restrictive are typically awash in illegal guns except, of course, for those that need them for protection.
WTF good do laws do if in practice they don’t work?
Apparently you are naïve but that’s no surprise.
I guess coming from you I should consider this a compliment.
Aside from that I can’t help but notice that you automatically assume that all conservatives are racist and religious fanatics.
The Waco thing was in 1993. Time to get over it wouldn’t ya say?
The waiting period is a “cooling off” period and it’s BS. The background check (NICS) is done at the time of purchase.
Helps to know just a little about the laws you love so much….
PS: Go back and look at some of the gunz-r-bad threads from last summer and take to heart the shreddings we gave them before you continue on.
Quote:
I am personally scared s**tless over the notion that political extremists like Timothy MacVee having access to guns, because they have proven that they'll use them.
Well then you’re living in fear over something you can’t do anything about.
Besides, to you anyone who’s not a dyed in the wool liberal is a right wing “extremist”
Quote:
And yes, gun control laws do keep persons with criminal convictions from legally purchasing guns.
Funny how they end up with all the guns they want anyway isn’t it…..
Not to mention the places where gun laws are the most restrictive are typically awash in illegal guns except, of course, for those that need them for protection.
Quote:
And no, I'm not so naive as to believe that guns will be kept out of the hands of law breakers - just legally.
WTF good do laws do if in practice they don’t work?
Apparently you are naïve but that’s no surprise.
Quote:
And as for a "golden age," I'm talking about either a return to the "good old days," when white men were king, wile blacks and women knew their place. Or ridiculous notions of Christ Millennial reign on earth, ushered in by more extreme believers, such as in Waco Texas - which is based on a wild misinterpretation of Revelations.
I guess coming from you I should consider this a compliment.
Aside from that I can’t help but notice that you automatically assume that all conservatives are racist and religious fanatics.
The Waco thing was in 1993. Time to get over it wouldn’t ya say?
Quote:
isn't that what a waiting period is for, in order to run a check on a gun purchaser?
The waiting period is a “cooling off” period and it’s BS. The background check (NICS) is done at the time of purchase.
Helps to know just a little about the laws you love so much….
PS: Go back and look at some of the gunz-r-bad threads from last summer and take to heart the shreddings we gave them before you continue on.
No, I don't consider everyone who isn't a liberal to be a terrorist; far from it. And I was only using Waco as an example. There are still plenty of people who think they'll have to fight evil in order to make Christ come back. And the fact of the matter is, those "evil" people they plan to fight are me and my family.
And I will never take to heart shreddings from anyone.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
In a free society (well, comparatively free) those kind of people are the kind of risks that you have to live with because no law can effectively weed them out without sh*****g on everyone else. If push comes to shove the only real defense is to exercise the right (the right you seem to want to in effect abolish) to be armed and be willing to defend you and yours.
Aside from that the only option (if you want to call it an option) is to move to England or wherever where they'll be a nanny to you while pretending nothing is wrong in their own back yard.
Being "scared s**tless" of some sect or fringe of society and doing nothing meaningful to counter that threat is no way to live......
Well, admittedly, when I say I'm scared s**tless of fringe elements, I'm guilty of more than a little hyperbole. But I still would prefer not to see them armed.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
And my point is, has been, and will be that they will be armed if they want to be armed and no law is going to effectively stop them or even slow them in an effective way.
Simply preferring them not to be armed is about as effective as preferring not to get the flu this winter.
That's where I expect the FBI and ATF to do their jobs, and step in when dangerous people are planning to do insane things with guns.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Of the two I'd reluctantly give my nod of approval to the FBI well over the ATF. The ATF has proven time and time again to be excessively corrupt and dangerous.
How much case history do I need to pull up? They have a surplus of abuse to draw from and it even pre-dates Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Putting too much stock in any government agency to do what it's supposed to is dangerously naive.
What I was talking about, though, is protecting you and yours against dangerous sects. Do it yourself and don't wait for the government to do it for you because quite simply they don't care and never will.
I think I've explained it to you about all I can.....
Taking matters into my own hands, if I understand you properly, is against the law, and would land me in prison for homicide. I'll let sanctioned government agents pull the trigger.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
18 Nov 2012, 3:48 pm
18 Nov 2012, 3:51 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
18 Nov 2012, 3:56 pm
18 Nov 2012, 6:27 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well then you’re living in fear over something you can’t do anything about.
Besides, to you anyone who’s not a dyed in the wool liberal is a right wing “extremist”
Funny how they end up with all the guns they want anyway isn’t it…..
Not to mention the places where gun laws are the most restrictive are typically awash in illegal guns except, of course, for those that need them for protection.
WTF good do laws do if in practice they don’t work?
Apparently you are naïve but that’s no surprise.
I guess coming from you I should consider this a compliment.
Aside from that I can’t help but notice that you automatically assume that all conservatives are racist and religious fanatics.
The Waco thing was in 1993. Time to get over it wouldn’t ya say?
The waiting period is a “cooling off” period and it’s BS. The background check (NICS) is done at the time of purchase.
Helps to know just a little about the laws you love so much….
PS: Go back and look at some of the gunz-r-bad threads from last summer and take to heart the shreddings we gave them before you continue on.
Quote:
I am personally scared s**tless over the notion that political extremists like Timothy MacVee having access to guns, because they have proven that they'll use them.
Well then you’re living in fear over something you can’t do anything about.
Besides, to you anyone who’s not a dyed in the wool liberal is a right wing “extremist”
Quote:
And yes, gun control laws do keep persons with criminal convictions from legally purchasing guns.
Funny how they end up with all the guns they want anyway isn’t it…..
Not to mention the places where gun laws are the most restrictive are typically awash in illegal guns except, of course, for those that need them for protection.
Quote:
And no, I'm not so naive as to believe that guns will be kept out of the hands of law breakers - just legally.
WTF good do laws do if in practice they don’t work?
Apparently you are naïve but that’s no surprise.
Quote:
And as for a "golden age," I'm talking about either a return to the "good old days," when white men were king, wile blacks and women knew their place. Or ridiculous notions of Christ Millennial reign on earth, ushered in by more extreme believers, such as in Waco Texas - which is based on a wild misinterpretation of Revelations.
I guess coming from you I should consider this a compliment.
Aside from that I can’t help but notice that you automatically assume that all conservatives are racist and religious fanatics.
The Waco thing was in 1993. Time to get over it wouldn’t ya say?
Quote:
isn't that what a waiting period is for, in order to run a check on a gun purchaser?
The waiting period is a “cooling off” period and it’s BS. The background check (NICS) is done at the time of purchase.
Helps to know just a little about the laws you love so much….
PS: Go back and look at some of the gunz-r-bad threads from last summer and take to heart the shreddings we gave them before you continue on.
No, I don't consider everyone who isn't a liberal to be a terrorist; far from it. And I was only using Waco as an example. There are still plenty of people who think they'll have to fight evil in order to make Christ come back. And the fact of the matter is, those "evil" people they plan to fight are me and my family.
And I will never take to heart shreddings from anyone.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
In a free society (well, comparatively free) those kind of people are the kind of risks that you have to live with because no law can effectively weed them out without sh*****g on everyone else. If push comes to shove the only real defense is to exercise the right (the right you seem to want to in effect abolish) to be armed and be willing to defend you and yours.
Aside from that the only option (if you want to call it an option) is to move to England or wherever where they'll be a nanny to you while pretending nothing is wrong in their own back yard.
Being "scared s**tless" of some sect or fringe of society and doing nothing meaningful to counter that threat is no way to live......
Well, admittedly, when I say I'm scared s**tless of fringe elements, I'm guilty of more than a little hyperbole. But I still would prefer not to see them armed.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
And my point is, has been, and will be that they will be armed if they want to be armed and no law is going to effectively stop them or even slow them in an effective way.
Simply preferring them not to be armed is about as effective as preferring not to get the flu this winter.
That's where I expect the FBI and ATF to do their jobs, and step in when dangerous people are planning to do insane things with guns.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Of the two I'd reluctantly give my nod of approval to the FBI well over the ATF. The ATF has proven time and time again to be excessively corrupt and dangerous.
How much case history do I need to pull up? They have a surplus of abuse to draw from and it even pre-dates Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Putting too much stock in any government agency to do what it's supposed to is dangerously naive.
What I was talking about, though, is protecting you and yours against dangerous sects. Do it yourself and don't wait for the government to do it for you because quite simply they don't care and never will.
I think I've explained it to you about all I can.....
Taking matters into my own hands, if I understand you properly, is against the law, and would land me in prison for homicide. I'll let sanctioned government agents pull the trigger.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
And the fact of the matter is, those "evil" people they plan to fight are me and my family.
To which I replied:
Quote:
If push comes to shove the only real defense is to exercise the right (the right you seem to want to in effect abolish) to be armed and be willing to defend you and yours.
I don’t see anywhere in there where I advocated vigilantism.
If you think simply defending your family against harm from others is vigilantism then you have more serious issues then I thought….
18 Nov 2012, 6:35 pm
18 Nov 2012, 6:45 pm
18 Nov 2012, 6:48 pm
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
18 Nov 2012, 9:04 pm
18 Nov 2012, 9:42 pm
18 Nov 2012, 11:42 pm
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
19 Nov 2012, 1:19 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
19 Nov 2012, 1:32 am
MXH
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Joined: 28 Jul 2010
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19 Nov 2012, 3:32 am
