Here Is What Louisiana Schoolchildren Learn About Evolution

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TheBicyclingGuitarist
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25 Nov 2012, 6:31 am

LKL wrote:
For one thing, the border between the two is fuzzy. Macroevolution is the accumulation of microevolution over time: many small changes adding up to significant change. At what point do you consider something a new species? Or, as the creationists would have it, a new "baramin"?

One prediction of evolution is that the lines between species, and even between higher clades, will become less distinct the more you know, and indeed that has been the case; the old paradigm of kingdom>phylum>class>order>family>genus>species has become almost meaningless, with supspecies, superclasses, suborders, superinfraclasses, etc.

Are horses and donkeys the same "baramin"? They can reproduce, but the offspring aren't fertile - usually. Very rarely, a hinny has been known to throw a foal, meaning that there can be long-lasting gene exchange between the two species.

In addition to all of that, this is where the rich fossil record comes in: we can see, in great detail, the evolution of many mammalian clades from one organism to another - macroevolution in action. Mammals are relatively recent on the scene, so there's pretty good preservation of a lot of lines.


I am so glad I am not the only one who sees this. Well said! I hope it helps clear the confusion of some of those people who have been basing their opinion on ignorance, denial or distortion of what is demonstrably real.


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TallyMan
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25 Nov 2012, 7:11 am

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
LKL wrote:
For one thing, the border between the two is fuzzy. Macroevolution is the accumulation of microevolution over time: many small changes adding up to significant change. At what point do you consider something a new species? Or, as the creationists would have it, a new "baramin"?

One prediction of evolution is that the lines between species, and even between higher clades, will become less distinct the more you know, and indeed that has been the case; the old paradigm of kingdom>phylum>class>order>family>genus>species has become almost meaningless, with supspecies, superclasses, suborders, superinfraclasses, etc.

Are horses and donkeys the same "baramin"? They can reproduce, but the offspring aren't fertile - usually. Very rarely, a hinny has been known to throw a foal, meaning that there can be long-lasting gene exchange between the two species.

In addition to all of that, this is where the rich fossil record comes in: we can see, in great detail, the evolution of many mammalian clades from one organism to another - macroevolution in action. Mammals are relatively recent on the scene, so there's pretty good preservation of a lot of lines.


I am so glad I am not the only one who sees this. Well said! I hope it helps clear the confusion of some of those people who have been basing their opinion on ignorance, denial or distortion of what is demonstrably real.


I doubt it will have any effect on hard-core creationists; they hold their beliefs above reality. They put their fingers in their ears and say La La La I can't hear you.. evolution is a lie by the Devil and it was God wot dun it all. Because the facts don't support their arguments they pretend the facts aren't real. You can't argue against wilful self-delusion.


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The_Walrus
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25 Nov 2012, 7:31 am

Keniichi wrote:
Ok after doing some more research I have come to a conclusion that Christians dont like Macro Darwin Evolution. The Christian Scientists usually believe in MicroEvolution.
As usual feel free to correct/teach me?

Well, for a start Micro Evolution and Macro Evolution are exactly the same thing. Creationists pretend they are different in an attempt to appear less ignorant.

It is impossible to deny descent with modification (micro-evolution) because children do not resemble their parents exactly. Everyone acknowledges that it is impossible for a child to look exactly like both their parents, before we even get onto random assortment, mutations, and epigenetics.

Creation scientists believe that allele differences will never accumulate to the point where successful interbreeding is not possible. Given that this is a "never" claim, there only needs to be one example of that happening. We have plenty.



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25 Nov 2012, 9:38 am

There is no indication to believe macro evolution is any different than micro evolution. The whole story seems to be a hype created by creationists in a desperate attempt to yet again deny all evidence.


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25 Nov 2012, 11:38 am

Keniichi wrote:
Ok after doing some more research I have come to a conclusion that Christians dont like Macro Darwin Evolution. The Christian Scientists usually believe in MicroEvolution.
As usual feel free to correct/teach me?


Same old BS.

Fundies can longer deny evolution because its all too real and is happening in real time right in front of us in ways that we all wish god would save us from: mosquitos evolve resistence to pesticides, and bacteria evolve resistence to antibiotics, and virus evolve resistences to vaccines, and the Aids virus is a one man show of evolution.

So fundies have to concoct this new distinction-without-a-difference between something they call "microevolution" and "macroevolution".

The logic usually runs something like "bacteria evolve resistence to chemicals, but you dont see fish evolve legs".

But they dont take into account time- fish had a lot longer to evolve legs than just the one human lifetime that humans have been observing bacteria respond to antibiotics.

Fish had millions of years to evolve legs, and they didnt have their own descendants (two legged and four legged and winged vertabrates- us) to compete with while they were doing it. And besides: -if fish didnt grow legs then why does the fossil record show that they did?

Like you said - microevolution becomes macroevolution with time.



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25 Nov 2012, 3:09 pm

WHYYYY?
All this coming from the most powerful country around, scary.

Quote:
Evolutionists believe that "man is the highest level of animal"
this is NEVER IMPLIED. Quite the opposite.


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