Why do so many people believe in an afterlife?

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Implying that you think God lacked that understanding previously?

I admit i am scared of oblivion. Although that doesn't mean i must believe in an afterlife.


Thing about rebirth, if you were reborn with no memory of your past...that reborn would not be you. So really reincarnation is the same as oblivion.

I fear oblivion as well, but I'd rather oblivion than some form of afterlife/reincarnation. At least in the case of oblivion, once you're dead, that's it. It's Nirvana for you.

Some people can see it.

How can I argue with that?

Same soul, different body.
Some have memory of their past life/s.
Some prodigies cannot be explained any other way.

You'll find a way.

Last edited by ripped on 22 Jan 2013, 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

But most would prefer an aftertlife to having to listen to Kurt's music.

Not my thinking. I have enough problems with understanding how omniscience and omnipotence could create this, free-will is another one that the mechanics of completely elude me as well. The evidence of it being a specifically Christian reality is coming in from other directions, what ripped asked me about though is one of the mysteries of the situation, similar to how omniscience/omnipotence could cause this without knowing what it was doing: why would it have to send a portion of itself down to be executed to make things right.

They say incarnation is always a choice. And at this pivotal time in earths history, its something of a privilege.

I would say that's what it took. Its a world of jaw-dropping beauty. Its a massive creation.

I am told we are the only planet of free will in the galaxy, that there only needs to be one.
Free will being the greatest possession available. And to surrender that in order to do the will of God being the test of humanity. ...or something...

I think His mission was hijacked there. And I think he was the king of the Jews, and two thousand years later six million of them died at the hands of Christians! But that's free will.
About the dying for sins part, if they are someones sins, then no matter who dies, those sins still belong to the person who committed them. I think it is a cop out that Jesus wears my karma. It sounds like a shirk of personal responsibility.

Who are they?

If I told you would you promise not to laugh?

No need. I think I got my answer.

There are people who speak with authority on this subject whom I find credible.
There are people whom spirit talks through, and the credible ones all say the same thing, but in different words and in different ways.
But my recommendation lends no weight to them, and their name lends no weight to my argument, so lets just leave it there.

That's fascinating in and of itself because it fits with the notion that all other races would be non-Adamic or pre-Adamic, hence have the breath of the angels bringing them to life rather than breath of the Father.


Well no, six million Jews (and plenty of Freemasons per another thread) as well as African diasporah, mentally ill, and communists died at the hands of something wrought of the Thule Society. The Thule Society was a noxious blend of Theosophy, Gnosticism, and racism (or at least its Teutonic Lodge) where the occult was taken by people who had a desire to 'immenetize the eschaton'. Read up on the Thule Society when you have a minute.

Also, based on the duality and the sheer brutality of the heaven/hell concept none of this seemed right to me, nor would I have gone back to it, nor would I have really bought into the bible as the word of God (let alone uncorrupted) if it weren't for having my heart broken from finding out that at the deepest levels of theosophy and new age the monistic (ie. good vs. error/ignorance) isn't the case. This is where Dsaly's threads might be incredibly informative for you. Regardless of whether it seems fair or not we're held accountable for our eschatological choices and, for as much as I loved the self-finding aspects and the chase to open myself up and chase what really drove me wild about emotion, life, cognition, etc. with theosophy/new age I was forced to realize that this is apotheosis, which is fundamentally the left-hand path. Being that my heart's desire was to first and foremost seek what's right and align myself with it (needing to prove to myself first that there was anything out there to begin with) was what took precedence. So the Luciferian aspects of this stuff haven't helped, nor have David Flynn's Cydonia and Temple At The Center of Time which tie the mystery religions back to Sidon and thanks to a lot of that work as well as what I've found in binding to new age I see now that the story of fallen angels and their interaction with man is a much more romantic, psychedelic, creative, and seductive one than being the red-horns and gargoyls caricature that began its propogation some time likely in mid to late Roman Catholic rule.

The trouble is, no matter how bright they might shine, no matter how holy or upright they may behave, no matter how good the advice seems that they give - the violence in their goals is not physical (at least yet) but rather its an eschatological violence, one that we have a very difficult time undertstanding the behavior behind when we see it simply because it hasn't been seen as a part of the human sphere of motivations for crime or impropriety in centuries. To us its quite easy to look at something, say that everything its about proports to be love, but - if there's a catch and that catch is eschatologically deal-breaking, what looks pretty is deadlier than ice.

It absolutely breaks my heart, and seems completely wrong (especially when I think of how many NDE's are out therer that veer in this direction and...wow...it just seems mean that this would be allowed) but its safe to say that almost no one would hear this kind of thing by going to church either, ie. its sort of there in the bible between lines but it takes looking at new age/theosophy, then looking at it against the bible for a lot of this to really take shape.

I'd love to think I were wrong on this and that everything's as cozy and beautiful as said, that we all reincarnate all over the place, take on different rays, get initiated to different levels of wisdom and caretaking of creation where everything we go through or do is a learning experience with positive potential - just that the more I've examined it the more it's self-destructed on the table. Even worse with the global ascension from 3rd to 5th dimenion (or 1st to 3rd heaven) along with Gaia raising her vibration, the some taken some left, the Pleiadian helpers coming along to help out - err..... I don't know a nice way to say this.....that's all part of what's commonly called the Black Awakening, and the details of that are covered well in Revelations by John. You can expect Mars (the philosophere's stone) to play a major role in the kinds of forgery that'll be flying around in those times. For as much as everyone's claiming there's nothing there it takes knowing a little bit about NASA, JPL, who the founders were and their associations (starting with Jack Parsons for JPL).

Now understand this - I think we're all trying to find our way here and, for better or naive, I don't think anyone here is deliberately aiming to go the wrong way on things nor bring things with them, ie. everyone who's vocal on these issues is trying to seek the truth, some people find more availability with certain materials than others. My ultimate attitude though: the left-hand path is for angels, not people, because its an angelic problem not a human problem. Its partly because of that I'm willing to be vocal on this issue even if I'm not necessarily telling people what they want to hear - ie. God stepped on their toes and vice a versa hard enough that they want to bring as many of us as they can with them. I'm here trying to make the best of this existance as I can and, f-all if I'll sit by and say nothing if they're cruising up and down the street trying to coax us in with candy.


You'd have to get to know the Yahweh of the old testament, ie. almost no one would make the grade. The one thing that shows up is that his manners of thinking are alien to ours, ie. especially in the beginning empathy didn't seem to be a skill in his toolset, likely because we're a mix what he is, what he isn't, thus the Son needed to be that bridge. I've read one or two NDE's which essentially show that while we're saved by his Son dying on the cross it has a lot to do with gathering our conditions, the realities of where we are and what this is like from a first-hand experience, ie. its not just dying to get us off the hook - it seems like the implication is he lived every life that would be lived in tandem with whoever lived it.

The other imporant part of NT scripture that most people don't understand who haven't read the OT - Its easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle (ie. small doorway) than for a rich man to get into heaven. For those who believe that this is a cry for socialism/communism they're missing the meaning two-fold, ie. in the OT people who did well were blessed by God and for those who weren't doing well it was assumed that it was by their own sin. You'll have to read Job some times and see after all that he lost that his three friends were trying to convince him that he did wrong, that he was being self-righteous and crafty in trying to deny it, and they were getting increasingly angry when he told them that he was searching his soul and simply wasn't having any luck finding out how he'd earned his situation. That saying by Jesus is that even the people who you believe are your best, based on their material position and what you'd assume to be the implications of their spiritual merit, its not enough.