Creep Shaming?

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Okay, that might be how you're using it. I know I can't prove this, but from everything I've seen and heard, it doesn't always have to do with feeling threatened. From the context used, it always seems creep is just a by word for undesirable. I rode the college shuttle for four semesters, and women would use the word so frequently in their conversation, I find it hard to believe that they were honestly afraid of all these men. It seemed they used it more in irritation, or disinterest.

The thing is, it doesn't matter if you find it believable, it doesn't matter because it's an expression of how she FEELS about her safety. If someone indicates they are fearful of something or someone, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are expressing concern for their own safety. To me that's way more important than concern for someone's ego/pride.

People can try to police women expressing fear, but that's pretty destructive.

And I think you'd be surprised at just how many women are wary of all unfamiliar men, but don't shout "CREEP" until a guy crosses a line. And I think you'd be surprised at just how many women are too scared to say anything when a guy is being a creep and refusing to respect her boundaries. I see it all the time, I know that's anecdotal, but a simple google search, and not strictly reading MRA sites reveals a lot of women out there are fearful everyday of their lives and have a really hard time speaking up because of what might happen next if she upsets a guy who is already showing he has no regard for her boundaries.

No, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised at how wary they are. No, sorry, a lot of women dramatize every experience with a man they think is interested and they don't feel reciprocal as dealing with a "creep." I've over heard this garbage enough to know it's not all about feeling threatened or uneasy. Honestly, it just seems to have become a colloquial term for the most recent guy to hit on them that they didn't feel interested in. Women, from what I here, get hit on a lot, and they start to label the guys they don't like. That's all. I can see you don't wanna believe this, or truly don't, but I'm calling it like I see it. To say it's only used in situations when the guy is seriously inappropriate is ridiculous. I here this nonsense all the time, and I refuse to believe everywhere I go we have all these aggressive perverts walking around here scaring women. I've lived long enough and seen this crap play out around me enough to know these "creep" sightings just aren't legit. Also, one person might think of you as a creep, another might be fine with you. You can spin it any way you want, but most creeps probably aren't creeps. WOmen are free to think anything about any guy they want, and even vocalize it, but I'm not taking their paranoid bull**** seriously and making it into something it's not.

Somewhat off-topic, but every time I notice this thread I misread the title as "Sheep Cramming" - whatever that is.

Listen mate, you keep your business to yourself.

The thing is, you aren't a woman, you can't read women's minds, and you don't get to decide what we feel threatened by. There are plenty of people talking about this online and saying women are using the term "creep" unfairly, but no one gets to decide what makes a woman feel threatened or afraid except that individual woman. You can say it's BS, but if I feel threatened, I don't care if you believe I feel legitimately threatened, because you don't get to determine what qualifies a man as threatening.

So yeah, if someone calls you a creep,(by the definition that a creep is someone who makes another feel threatened or unsafe, or simply like his or her boundaries are not being respected) that means you're being a creep. It means you need to cease and desist, whether or not YOU feel like what you're doing is not threatening. The term creep is used to express that, and to that person, you're a creep, regardless of your opinion of your own behavior.

You don't get to decide what makes someone feel threatened or unsafe, that much I know is true.

But you don't have to take "their paranoid BS" seriously or make it into something it's not(although you're making it into something it's not, already) because it most likely does not involve you, unless you yourself are being called a creep. However, that statement is PRETTY RIDICULOUS, because women who don't act on their instincts and do whatever they can to get away from a person they get creepy vibes from, who end up getting assaulted by a guy they were uncomfortable with are frequently told "Well if he creeped you out/seemed off/whatever, why didn't you get away from him before it happened?"

If we act on these feelings, we're paranoid and being awful people, if we don't, and something happens, we deserved what we got.

I'd rather be told it's paranoid BS than be told I should've acted on my instinct to flee. That whole idea that we're overly paranoid etc. is such crap, I hear it all of the time, we're constantly being told what to feel and how to act and regardless of what we feel or how we act or what we choose, there are always plenty of people around to tell us we did something wrong or we're doing something wrong in regards to our personal safety, when in reality the burden shouldn't have to be ours to not get harassed or assaulted or attacked... but so long as it is, I, for one, am never going to look to other people to tell me what is or isn't right or appropriate for me to do when I feel like my safety is at risk. And I will continue to encourage the women in my life to trust their instincts and never be afraid to tell someone to leave them the f*ck alone and make a lot of noise if they feel unsafe.

Also, thanks for knowing what it's like to be a woman, and telling me what we think and why we do the things we do, I don't have enough men telling me what it's like to be a woman.
/sarcasm

But Meems, no one's saying that a woman shouldn't stay away from a man she's afraid of for whatever reason. What is being said though is that, unless the guy has actually done something specific to make her fearful, she shouldn't put the responsibility for her feelings on him.

For instance (like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I express myself better by giving examples and hopefully you can see how the same idea applies in other situations), I was at a liquor store with my gf. There was a girl working the counter. A man came in, asked for a copy of Hustler. I was within 15 feet of him the whole time, I know for a fact that he did or said nothing else the entire time he was there. After he left, the girl at the counter started talking to my gf about how creepy the guy was.

The guy did nothing wrong or inappropriate. He walked into a place of business, asked for an item they sold there, and then he left. The girl's issue was that, apparently, she was uncomfortable selling magazines like that. Personally, I think that if she had that big of a problem with it, she should probably work somewhere that doesn't sell it.

Either way, if she had made it about herself, said something along the lines of "I'm really uncomfortable when I have to sell stuff like that," I'd have taken no issue with it. Instead, she made the whole thing about him, tried to make it seem as though he'd done something wrong. That's the part I have a problem with.

Side note; I love my gf's sense of humor. She stood there while the girl was complaining about the guy, saying "yeah, uh-huh, sure, I know what you mean" then, as soon as she stopped talking, asked for a copy of Hustler.

what were the specific reasons she felt the man was creepy though? you didn't tell us that. you framed it as an issue with selling the magazines but i highly doubt that she didn't say anything at all about the man in particular.

Probably the usual "creep reason" of the guy buying the magazine not being very attractive, or a combination of the two things.

you're projecting that onto him, but you don't actually know. we were not there. in fact, the only person who really knows is the woman who was affected, but i thought she may have offered some clues to mds_02.

That's exactly my point. He did nothing else the whole time he was in there. He said nothing else the whole time he was there. He walked in, bought the magazine, and left. That's it. She had no specific complaints about him, only that he was a creep for buying the magazine.

That's kinda my whole point here. If she had some complaint about that guy in particular, rather than just having to sell him the magazine, I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it.

And, thing is, I see stuff like that very frequently. When I talk about the word creep being overused it's situations like that that I am referring to. The times when there are specific reasons for labelling the guy (even if I think those reasons are dumb) are not what I'm talking about here.

I'm not talking about the guy who doesn't respect personal space, or behaves in an overtly sexual manner, getting called a creep, that's fine by me. I'm not talking about the guy who hits on girls in inappropriate situations, or won't take no for an answer, getting called a creep, that's fine too.

I'm talking about the guys who get called creeps when they're just going about their day to day lives, not doing anything to anyone. I'm talking about the guy who offers to buy a girl a drink in a bar, who leaves her alone when she says no, and gets called a creep anyway. I'm talking about the guy who asks a girl a completely innocuous question like "what time is it?" and gets called a creep for that. I'm talking about the guy who gets called a creep without ever speaking to, or even coming near, the person calling him one.

These are all things I've either seen happen to other guys, or had happen to me personally.

Some here seem to be under the impression that there's always a reason for calling someone "creepy" or that there are no real-world consequences for the person so labelled. Sorry, but that's just not the case.

maybe you weren't seeing what she was seeing, because i dealt with similar merchandise a lot in a video store where i worked and there was frequently a bit of extra spice that made the whole exchange VERY uncomfortable. this was back in the day when there were VHS and Betamax tapes, and there were adult videos available in the store. every so often, one of the men renting the videos would give toooo much eye contact, or stare at my boobs, or use my first name without asking, or flirt with me, or stay in the store too long after paying. because the man was buying/renting porn and i was alone in an isolated store with no security camera, that made these normally small things different.

just because she didn't tell you why the man creeped her out doesn't mean there wasn't a good reason. in fact, before this minute i've never shared my video store experiences! so it's not like women sit everyone down and tell the general public about every single man who made them uncomfortable. she felt safe enough to share that one bit of information with you, but that doesn't mean you have the whole story.

it's interesting that you are wholly unwilling to give her the benefit of the doubt and assumed that she misapplied the label. that makes me wonder if you are seeing the situation objectively. as a contrast, can you tell of an experience that you personally observed where the "creepy" label WAS correctly applied?

Again, small store. I was within maybe 15 feet of him the entire time. he said nothing else the entire time he was there, he did not linger in the store, he did not try to flirt with her, he did not use her name without asking. He walked up to the counter, said "copy of hustler please," paid, and left. That's it.

It's interesting that you think you know more than I do about an interaction that I personally observed, and you did not. I'm more than willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. Only, in this case, there was no doubt to give the benefit of. It's why I chose that particular story to illustrate my point.

As for examples of when I think it was correctly applied, sure I've seen a few of those too. Here's a couple.

Guy goes up to two girl sitting at a bar, stands behind and leans in between them. Both are leaning away from him trying to get some space. He asks one if he can buy her a drink. When she says "no" he immediately turns to the other and asks her the same. She calls him a creep. He gets angry about it, walks away, and spends a few minutes talking loudly about how he never meets any women who aren't complete b*****s before he gets kicked out of the bar.

No story for this one, but I knew a guy who just could not stop making sex jokes no matter where he was or who was around. As explicit as possible. It could be kinda funny sometimes and, knowing him, he was completely harmless. But the (many) women who referred to him as a creep or with other names were entirely justified. If they had the wrong idea about him, that was entirely his fault because of the way he acted.

i'm always more willing to put myself in the shoes of the person feeling the discomfort, so i give them the benefit of the doubt first and foremost. from the posts of several members, we've seen that the idea of calling someone "creepy" is generally tied to the first person's feeling of compromised safety or security. i am generally willing accept that at face value, as i have not really seen the term abused in my own personal firsthand experience. so i guess it's a matter of being in a different set of shoes, maybe. so i didn't see any reason to doubt that woman's feelings.

Oh, I don't doubt her feelings. Her feelings are her feelings. The part I have an issue with is her putting the responsibility for her feelings on him. The problem is that, instead recognizing that her real issue was a discomfort with porn (which was fairly obvious when observing the situation), and maybe finding a job somewhere porn wasn't sold, she decided to make the whole thing all about him.