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ripped
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29 Mar 2013, 5:07 am

ruveyn wrote:
ripped wrote:
I believe in God.

So many of the religion threads on this forum boil down to this one argument. The one in this subject title.
Because I believe in God, in order to satisfy my intellect I have to have an answer to it.

So ladies and gentlemen of the WrongPlanet forum;
Why did God place us in this world, and then hide Himself from us?

Why do you torture yourself (and others) with unanswerable questions?

ruveyn

I've got my answer
He loves us and respects us so much that he wont personally physically appear without our collective permission.

And it is in order that I should thank you people of the forum for leading me to that.



CaptainTrips222
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29 Mar 2013, 6:34 am

ripped wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
ripped wrote:
I believe in God.

So many of the religion threads on this forum boil down to this one argument. The one in this subject title.
Because I believe in God, in order to satisfy my intellect I have to have an answer to it.

So ladies and gentlemen of the WrongPlanet forum;
Why did God place us in this world, and then hide Himself from us?

Why do you torture yourself (and others) with unanswerable questions?

ruveyn

I've got my answer
He loves us and respects us so much that he wont personally physically appear without our collective permission.

And it is in order that I should thank you people of the forum for leading me to that.


He should know damn good and well that humans are too disparate to come together collectively on ANYTHING. We're genetically, geographically, circumstantially different, and always will be. Why the hell does he need us to collectively do it? What does respect and love have to do with that anyway?



Jaden
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29 Mar 2013, 7:07 am

jekenai wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Specifically, the Bible, it tells you how to reach God (as well as other things) but people like to shun it because it's a physical thing and not some "almighty sign" (like a burning bush for example). Not to mention prayer, God hears them all. People have to have faith too (which they clearly do not have if they're claiming that God is "hiding" from people).


If you choose to stop think critically and not to try avoiding psychological biases but strengthen them, then you can start believe it God, but it's not the proof of God's existence. This method works well for other gods too and even for some non-theistic religion-like ideologies.


I can tell your first language is not english, I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying here.


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Declension
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29 Mar 2013, 8:58 am

01001011 wrote:
The word 'omnipotent' is again nonsense.


I'm not so sure about that. "Logically impossible" doesn't have to mean "obviously logically impossible to humans".

I mean, you and I know that "2+2=5" is logically impossible. It's obvious to us. We can see that straight away. And we are right. But does an ant know that "2+2=5" is logically impossible? Of course not.

Maybe if you were God, it would be obvious to you that it is logically impossible to interfere with the universe you created. That's just how things are. Humans can't see it, but God can see it.

In fact, I'd go even further and claim that even us humans can intuitively see that it does seem like the sort of thing which might be logically impossible. Maybe creating a universe is something like writing and running a computer program. Once you've started up your computer program, you can't interfere with it unless you have designed it to request inputs. Maybe God didn't design the universe to request inputs.



CaptainTrips222
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29 Mar 2013, 11:44 am

Jaden wrote:
jekenai wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Specifically, the Bible, it tells you how to reach God (as well as other things) but people like to shun it because it's a physical thing and not some "almighty sign" (like a burning bush for example). Not to mention prayer, God hears them all. People have to have faith too (which they clearly do not have if they're claiming that God is "hiding" from people).


If you choose to stop think critically and not to try avoiding psychological biases but strengthen them, then you can start believe it God, but it's not the proof of God's existence. This method works well for other gods too and even for some non-theistic religion-like ideologies.


I can tell your first language is not english, I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying here.


If you choose to stop thinking critically, and just allow your own biases to grow stronger, it gets easier to believe in God, but that in and of itself isn't proof. This kind of thinking goes hand in hand with not only religion, but secular ideas.

I'm sure you didn't understand that either though. I doesn't cater to your boxed-in view of reality.



ruveyn
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29 Mar 2013, 11:46 am

What is the difference between someone hiding and someone being invisible?



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29 Mar 2013, 12:00 pm

Because hes a coward!


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29 Mar 2013, 12:43 pm

Cei wrote:
If we deny the existence of God, it's a way to avoid responsibility.


How is the idea that an omnipotent being with a plan that has control over your life and soul NOT avoiding responsibility? Praying for guidance and declaring something was "God's will" are both absolving responsibility.

This is the irony of altruism and atheism. A Christian does good works because they are told to, or because they want to get the "good" afterlife. This is not altruism, as there's a payoff (whether it's a real payoff or not is irrelevant). An atheist has no reason to do good works beyond the desire to do good works. So is it possible to be an altruistic believer?



Thom_Fuleri
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29 Mar 2013, 12:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:
What is the difference between someone hiding and someone being invisible?


Intent?



Jaden
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29 Mar 2013, 3:38 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
Jaden wrote:
jekenai wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Specifically, the Bible, it tells you how to reach God (as well as other things) but people like to shun it because it's a physical thing and not some "almighty sign" (like a burning bush for example). Not to mention prayer, God hears them all. People have to have faith too (which they clearly do not have if they're claiming that God is "hiding" from people).


If you choose to stop think critically and not to try avoiding psychological biases but strengthen them, then you can start believe it God, but it's not the proof of God's existence. This method works well for other gods too and even for some non-theistic religion-like ideologies.


I can tell your first language is not english, I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying here.


If you choose to stop thinking critically, and just allow your own biases to grow stronger, it gets easier to believe in God, but that in and of itself isn't proof. This kind of thinking goes hand in hand with not only religion, but secular ideas.

I'm sure you didn't understand that either though. I doesn't cater to your boxed-in view of reality.


Thank you for clearing that up, however, I never said anything about proof of anything, religion isn't about proof, it's about faith and if you don't have faith, the Bible can help you get it if you want to believe, but people need to stop ignoring the only real evidence of God's existence and start learning what Christianity is really about. Also, don't insult me or my "view of reality", you don't know me by any stretch of the imagination and I doubt very much that you're ever going to, especially with that attitude toward me. I've never met/talked/done anything to you and yet you pass judgement on me for believing in something that has helped change me to be a better person.
Now, I never said anything about not thinking critically, and I certainly do not allow my own personal biases to get strong just because they're there, and neither of those play any part in whether or not I believe in the Almighty. What people need to realize also, is that personal bias is also present in non-believers, but for them the bias is that God isn't real. See, it works both ways (whether non-believers like it or not) and unlike the believers, they're not expected to prove anything that they believe, instead they spend their time questioning our beliefs and trying to convince us of their version of truth because that's all they can see in front of them. That's where those secular/temporal/worldly ideas come from, not Christianity. Christianity is about accepting other people, regardless of who they are or what they believe, it's about loving each other and not succumbing to hate and contempt for each other. And yes, there are people who call themselves Christian that fly way off the mark, but they're only human, and every human sins and makes mistakes.

Lastly, I'm only going to say this once and this is to everyone:
If anyone here doesn't like my view on this topic, don't bother to comment to me, you will not change my views any more than I could change yours, and trying to do so will only result in a very long, very tedious, and very unnecessary argument, so please do spare me your backlash and twisted views about me as a believer and act like civilized human beings for once


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29 Mar 2013, 9:02 pm

I exist. I hide from people.



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29 Mar 2013, 9:35 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
He should know damn good and well that humans are too disparate to come together collectively on ANYTHING. We're genetically, geographically, circumstantially different, and always will be. Why the hell does he need us to collectively do it? What does respect and love have to do with that anyway?

our disparateness is god's way of better experiencing all of "all that is."



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29 Mar 2013, 9:44 pm

Well, as human beings, we have been plagued by sin at one point in or life. Because of that, if we were to see God's face, we would die immediately from his glory. (Yes, he could cover his face, as he did that with Moses.)

Also, people may cast him aside as a hallucination, thus making his whole visit pointless. Just my opinions.



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29 Mar 2013, 9:55 pm

Maybe he's a weird prankster God. He sets up new creations and beings to fail and then punishes them. Later on he gets bored and starts over in another Solar System.



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29 Mar 2013, 10:05 pm

Because he is an invention? Would anyone of you believe in a God if the Bible didnt exist, or if your source of information (parents for example) wasnt teached to believe in God themselves? That is the source of God, (Bible& spoken word) - and the explanations made here and elsewhere are creative thinking which derives from this foundation, and which tries to give reasons for it (religion and God) being true. The way I see it.



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29 Mar 2013, 10:19 pm

Sosiologismus wrote:
Because he is an invention? Would anyone of you believe in a God if the Bible didnt exist, or if your source of information (parents for example) wasnt teached to believe in God themselves?


I can't say I would believe in God in that scenario but what I can say is that I would believe in telepathy even if I had never heard about it. I know that because I did. I didn't know what to call it I just hypothesized that our minds were connected in some way similar to the internet and I strongly suspected my hypothesis to be true. It had no basis and I abandoned it as I got older but the initial idea still involved my own thinking. I used the term "brain emails" because I had never heard about telepathy.

Not all belief in supernatural things is taught.