It's stupid when feminists say that porn is misogynistic

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When I see people make statements like these, I reckon that the person making them has a poor understanding of human sexuality, or perhaps a disorder that makes them unable to relate to tastes and kinks that they don't personally share, mistaking their own opinions as objective truth. See what I did there?

It's one thing to say "I don't like that and I don't really understand the appeal", it's quite another, and really beyond insulting, thing, to say that someone who does do *that* must only be doing it for the attention, or because they are desperate or have a mental disorder, completely disregarding the possibility that there are people out there with differing tastes who would happily do it for free. Especially as simply being gay was considered a mental disorder up until the 1970's, you really ought to be a bit less judgmental about people who's sexuality does not conform to your own biases.

I already posted this link once in this thread, but I'm going to do it again, because I really think you *need* to read this article about the filming of one of those "extreme" scenes, to help you get a better understanding of the type of people who make and consume that style of pornography. I'm also going to post to an article examining the ethics of said extreme porn, based on the same piece. They're long, but I suggest you take the time.

http://nplusonemag.com/what-do-you-desire



Again, I implore you, read the after scene interviews with the performers, I think you'll find them illuminating.

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archiv ... ts/275898/


This article also links to a number of other analyses of the first essay, and includes the author's critiques of those as well. Also well worth your time.

I've seen enough cases on twitter and tumblr where female porn stars brag about being drug addicts and alcoholics and what a screwed up childhood they had. I believe that the majority of them are messed up in some kind of way. I have no respect whatsoever for them or "the business" and I think that if they get hit with enough real arguments that "business" will slowly die.

@Dox 47

I'm not talking about bondage, humiliation and pain, I'm specifically talking about puking. I just can't see how that's an erotic experience. Asphyxiation is, yes...but puking - no, it's literally bleh.

There are some things I'm not going to understand and I don't see the point in beating myself up about that inability. Some people do some things just for attention and I'm sorry, I'm going to believe making vomit porn is one of them - no matter how many articles I read.

I should probably try to get rid of my belief that people who make vomit porn have personality disoders because it is prejudiced but sometimes we have unhappily judgmental thoughts. At least I admit it, so there's something to work with there.

Most porn-actors are sociopaths(ASPD) in my opinion. Drug addiction and being sexually-promiscuous are both traits of that mental disorder. Sociopaths also don't have a conscience to speak of which would obviously make doing that stuff in front of a camera much easier.

Having given it some thought, I can see a way a vomiting fetish could develop: like other fetishes it could be exposure to the stimulus at a time of arousal that sets up an association. I don't know if it's healthy, though - because wouldn't it be a bit like bulimia and bad on your kidneys? Plus it's more common on porn than it probably is in real life as an actual fetish. I do believe there is a monkey-see-monkey-do aspect to pornography - moreso than with violence in films or games because (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) orgasm has a stronger neurological impact than whatever adrenalin rush you get from seeing people get shot.

I'm not saying you should be, I'm saying you should be less judgmental, which you seem to acknowledge further in.



So, you're going to stick to your judgmental personal opinion even in the light of countervailing evidence, no matter how compelling?



Yes, you should. It is good that you do see the problem, a lot of people never do.

Are you a psychiatrist? A drug counselor? An addiction specialist? Someone who's personally interviewed a large number of people involved in the adult entertainment industry?

Than why the hell do you have an opinion about it!?

Eh, in video games in particular, it's not a rush from seeing people shot, it's a rush from winning, it's the feeling of power and domination that makes them compelling. Movies are more of a vicarious experience, with an adrenaline reaction to exciting scenes, but not so much of the personal impact that you get from actually pulling the trigger in a game.

Also, are we talking about a straight vomit fetish here, like literally just girls puking, or are we talking more like extreme deep throat, fellatio induced puking? Cause if it's the latter, then we're not so much talking about a vomit fetish as we are a power/domination one, which is very common.

The latter - but I just find it odd that the power/domination thing would end up with puking. I just can't see any pleasurable outcome from puking, neurologically speaking. I can see how being restrained or in general fearing for your personal safety/life can be arousing (though I very much would not like to do those things.) The human body can enjoy lots of things but I don't see how puking can be one of them. There are more pleasurable ways to be dominated than puking on a penis and more pleasurable ways to dominate than having you genitals puked on. It just seems like one of those things that are extreme for extreme's sake.

Unrelated rant below:

I also feel like a total pervert for being female and not enjoying being dominated, but that's a different issue. I sometimes feel like either I'm f****d up or the world is. It's possible (probable, even) that no-one is f****d up and that we're all just different - but I feel like I'm too different sometimes.

I didn't say anything about how compelling the arguments will be. I've yet to see anything compelling enough on the particular subject of vomit porn and I doubt I will. I should have said 'I will probably stick to my opinion.' That was a mistake on my part.

I'm probably going to stick to my belief that God doesn't exist no matter how much apologetics I read because I doubt I'll ever read anything compelling enough.

The mind is where pleasure/displeasure exists. Physically, there are nerve signals that indicate hot/cold/soft/sharp/pressure/etc., but individual nerve signals aren't pleasure or displeasure, that's constructed in the mind as a reaction to the signals. I can easily imagine a BDSM person acting out a scene where their lover is a corrupt cop who arrests them and beats them up, and enjoying every minute, and then actually being arrested and beaten by a corrupt cop in real life, and hating every minute, even though the two scenarios didn't physically feel much different.


There are people who like extremeness for extremeness's sake.


I think the arguments that have been presented so far are compelling, at least in the sense that they show that vomit porn is not objectively any worse than other kinds of porn in principle. I personally find it disgusting and disturbing, but I don't think my emotional reaction here (however strong) ought to be a moral guide for other people. Other people have similarly strong reactions against homosexual sex, oral sex, anal sex, or even sex in general.

I guess this just comes down to my inability to believe that anyone gets off on puking. When you're throwing up, all you can think about is throwing up - you can't think about how sexy it is that someone has so much control over you that they made you throw up. It's such a physically involving thing to do that it kind of blanks everything else out of your mind. I can't imagine being capable of thinking anything except 'ugh, I hope I'm done puking soon'.

Well, public executions used to be a popular form of entertainment. As was bearbating, and torturing other animals.

Maybe there were people who liked to go and watch a good puking. I've never heard of it, but there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in my philosophy.

Okay, I didn't go to them. I don't want to see extreme scenes. The whole vomit thing is enough for me. I think that there is a difference between fantasizing something and seeing it acted out by real people. The latter brings in a whole other element. I don't think it's good to sell some things - mainly actual harm. I don't think it's right to watch someone being harmed even if they've consented to it. But, that's just me.

No pictures, just narrative. The Freidersdorf article at The Atlantic even addresses your point about consent.