Why You Can’t Debate Creationists

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The concept of god is somewhat unique and different. It is a very interesting one to entertain philosophically and if it did exist it would have interesting implications. I suppose being agnostic or not is also a matter of faith and doesn't really matter, unless only in ones personal spiritual plane; I like to meditate to oneness of all and to *god of harmony and reason*, .... I certainly don't think about gods that much at all (although to gather evidence one needs to think about the issue first, not just wait for it to turn up), but if we are discussing things like that I think it's better to be precise.

I think god is a reasonable concept and is not on the same footing as fairy tale characters (although these gods claimed by religions definitely are). It is however incredibly difficult to discard all the psychological, emotional etc points to isolate purely logical element. That said, discussing it is mostly a waste of time and is not that interesting anyway; but it goes to show how some atheists have the same behavior as religious people.

That's your personal preference. Others have other views and the same rules apply. Our preference for simple intuitive concepts doesn't seem to interest the Universe much.

It's a bit like the bias in Pascal's Wager. It essentially says, "Assuming Christianity is true, it's best to believe in it." Uh, ok.

Its not a preference, its a logical argument. If you have a concept of divinity, whatever, then to have a few of those is a bit redundant.

Give me a better argument and I'll gladly take it.

Better than, "I reckon.."? I already did. There are many non-intuitive things in the universe. Believe whatever you like.

If one god can come into existance, why not more? I think monotheism is less intuitive than polytheism, since polytheism seems to be older generally. Also, the god concept is very different between for example Odin and his crew VS the Abrahamic God. Odin is not all powerful and not the creator of the world as far as I know. The Norse gods are basically somewhat powerful people but not all powerful and not immortal.

I'm not sure Abraham's god counts since some scholars think that may have been El, the head of the Canaanite pantheon. As in Isra-EL. He didn't say he was Yahweh, he said El Shaddai. A description used in Ugarit for El. Yahweh shuffles in hundreds of years later and tells Moses he was using a pseudonym earlier. Later Israelites in the story seem to have had a hard time telling them apart.

And then you have the issue of the trinity. Outside of Christian circles it looks a lot like polytheism. Then add in the heavenly host, the thrones and powers, the divine council and sometimes Mary.

^^^ I meant that what a god is is so very different. The Abrahamic God is basically an all powerful and all knowing creator. Thor is just a guy with a magic hammer. I find the latter easier to understand. There could be beings in the universe that are so powerful we would call them gods.

Interesting! Well, I think god should not have a property of coming into existence as god is existence which creates other existences. There is no existing before god. And the mechanism which creates other gods etc can be called the primary, ultimate god.

What creates gods in polytheism? Some boss god?

God isn't real the earth is 4.5 billion years old and not 6000 years old it has been proven with 100% accuracy and man has shared a common ancestor with the chimpanzee and is not made out of dirt and ribs also been proven via the fossil record and genetic data! And evolution is a fact and is observable and documented and proven enough said! *drops the microphone as he leaves the stage*

In many of the old European pagan religions the gods are usually represented as family members of each other. In the Norse version Odin is called the all-father, and he is the father of Thor and Baldr and a bunch of others. This "family" of gods is called the Aesir. But there is also a different group of gods that is not related to Odin (the Vanir). And besides these gods there are also other beings that were not created by them, such as giants and elves. So this is a very different concept of a god than the monotheistic one. At least one of the gods get whacked, can't see that happening to the Abrahamic God.

Debating a creationist is like wrestling a greased pig.

1. The greased pig likes to wrestle
2. You will get greasy if you wrestle the greased pig.

ruveyn

I am not sure I understand. But who created those minor gods? I just want to argue my point that having more than one god is not logical. Or are these gods just associated with natural phenomena? What is the story of genesis in this sort of religion? Or is it not concerned with it?

So Christian god is not real. How do you know that god isnt real at all? god that allows evolution and whatnot? God that no human or current religion can comprehend? why cant a god like this exist?

There are sometimes divine pairs. The divine pairs give birth to more familiar gods and at some point one or more of those later gods claim the position of executive authority. If common sense is applicable to such concepts then it makes some sense because two beings are often required to begat other beings.

I'll stick with the cosmologists and physicists.

The Romans for example had no creation myth beyond the founding of the city of Rome (Romulus and Remus). No explanation of where the deities came from.
In the Greek mythology there is nothing, earth pops into existance (Gaia), Gaia then creates the sky (Uranus) and these two deities then procreate (a lot). Uranus gets overthrown by one of his sons (I think) who in turn gets overthrown by Zeus, who is now the head of the pantheon. Zeus is associated with lightning, most pagan gods have a theme of some kind. Somewhat similar to Christianity, with all its patron saints of various things.

The Germanic founding myth possibly has a cyclical element to it. There are two first humans (sounds familiar?) and there will be a final battle, Ragnarok, after which just about everyone dies and the world is destroyed, but two humans survive to repopulate the world and some of the dead gods come back to life, so it looks a bit like a reset. The creation myth is not documented the way Genesis is, all in one place, but there are bits and pieces mentioned in different poems. There is a world tree that connects the nine worlds, one of which is Midgard (earth). Midgard is created by the gods from the body of some primordial giant. I don't think it is explained where the other worlds come from. Those are the worlds inhabited by the gods, the elves, the giants and so on.
Since it was largely an oral tradition, there probably where quite a few regional differences. Even the names varied, in Dutch Odin is called Wodan, and Thor is called Donar. Here is one of the poems (Voluspa) that deals with creation. It is about a seeress who is asked to give an account of creation, and of the future.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe03.htm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN2Kc6NZOsw[/youtube]