What can we do about the high male suicide rate?

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I am in awe of some of my male friends' ability to recognise and describe their feelings - they seem like magicians to me!

However, if we take that ability as a trait (no moral judgement about it), it is worth investigating whether it is more prevalent among men, more prevalent amongst those who attempt suicide, or those who succeed, and if any of these are true, try to understand why that might be. Interestingly, the Wikipedia page for 'alexithymia' (profound inability to recognise emotions) is ambiguous - lines quoting no gender bias, or a strong male bias, occur within a few lines of each other. It does suggests however that 5-10% of people might be significantly affected - that's a staggering number of people!

I have a personal interest, as alexithymia is a significant part of my difficulty socialising. I can vouch from experience that it does not respond well to the usual pharmacological or talking therapies. For CBT in particular, I found talking at cross-purposes with a counsellor incredibly frustrating and disappointing - "off the shelf" therapies need to be adapted for neuro-diverse people if success rates are to be improved.

I knew a man whose family lived on welfare. At the age of 15 he decided to be a success in life. He was brilliant. By the time he was 42, he was at the top of a corporate law office, huge corner office with wall-to-wall windows with clear view of the city and river. He wore thousand dollar suits. Every year he left his Tudor mansion in Canada to take his entire family (2 parents, 5 kids) to a posh hotel in Europe from whence they made day-trips.

He had made all his most outlandish ambitions come true. I was his secretary. On my first day, he sat in that spectacular office and said, "If I won the lottery, I'd be out of here."

He had discovered that all success was as dust in his mouth. He was seeing a psychiatrist where they worked on values other than assets. He was suicidal. (He lived another 25 years.)

I thought he needed new ambitions. If all his dreams came true, then he needed new dreams. But he didn't know how to dream of anything but assets, which he knew would be empty. Today, older and wiser, I would shove him into some cause, like helping the homeless or adopting Syrians.

Could this be what happens when a man hits middle age? All that he has striven for has or has not been achieved. The only thing that matters is that it's over. How does a woman perceive being a grandmother; how does a man perceive being a grandfather? Can he see that far? Do men look forward to their productive senior years? In middle age, you've hit your salary cap, gone as far up the corporate ladder as ever you will, you see yourself becoming the fat old guy who's been there too long.

Do you see what I'm trying to say? In our Western society, a middle-aged man is not respected. He is perceived as having contributed all he's got. It's game over at half-time.

Maybe the next big cause should be Respect For Elders, which should begin, like feminism, with consciousness raising. There is a lot to respect. Perceiving that is Step 1 for all of us.

Thank you. The statement was both sexist and offensive, and I have clicked the "Report" button on it. Your analogy was spot on, too.

If a man says that women can't control their emotions, he gets labeled as a sexist troll, and will likely receive a nasty-gram from the mods.

If a woman says that men don't understand their emotions, she gets all kinds of support from the other members, and the mods ignore it.

We still have a long way to in the equal treatment of the sexes.

Years of mental abuse and trauma paired with the pressure society puts on men like men are not to share emotions and men need to be useful for something and a reason to have worth, when there is no reason of worth or use to society, one feels he is no longer needed on this Earth. At least that's how i feel when i am depressed and the flash backs get to me i have attempted suicide many times even before I joined WP nearly succeeded twice, when i get to that stage the negative feelings manifest to the point its like im not really there and my depression has taken over and i can no longer think clearly.

I was thinking about it and i would shy away from the generalization that all men who commit suicide are more serious than women. There is another correlation that can be made...simply that men are more likely to own a gun. Thus at that point, they have immediate access to more effective means.
I knew two guys that didn't have a gun and used pills...and failed... And one who did and succeeded.

I also think media is stronger than we realize. Before we had a black man as president, 24 had one and he was the good guy. Similar with a woman. There was the scully effect of a surge in women in science...

Those things can further push what we see every day and thus propagate onto our children for good or bad...

As it is right now, when a girl cries, she may be consoled, because if she grows up and does it, no one will think much. If a boy does, even parents with the best of intentions may tell him to stop and man up - because they know how society will view him in the future if it continues. And they have yet to see even a show that has the good guy cry or "be weak" sometimes.

I think such a thing would open a door.

I think men in general are in touch with their feelings.
There are individual men and women who are not, but both genders are in general.
Men have feelings and can understand them and can talk about them, esp. with each other based on my eavesdropping of conversations between men such as at the local outdoor cafe, but I have known men who can also talk to me about their feelings.
Alexithymia can make it hard for any gender to talk about their feelings, but I am saying for general population in which most people don't have alexithymia.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.

That's from Desiderata

Please keep it handy and read it often, especially when you feel down.

Also have a look at Walt Whitman Leaves of Grass, 97. Carol of Words, Verse 10 (scroll down) line 75 - here's a small piece of it.

Whoever you are! motion and reflection are especially for you; 75
The divine ship sails the divine sea for you.

Whoever you are! you are he or she for whom the earth is solid and liquid,
You are he or she for whom the sun and moon hang in the sky,
For none more than you are the present and the past,
For none more than you is immortality.

These things are the truth! The idea that we have to be of worth to society is capitalism, which has its uses, but not more than yourself.

Was there any comparison of attempted suicide rates in men and women?
Was it just the success rate of men increasing the numbers?

I am not sure what is offensive in the said comment.

I wouldn't last long if I had a gun. Major depression and meltdowns.

The statement that "men don't understand their emotions" directly states that men have no understanding of their own feelings, and indirectly implies that all men are simply not smart enough to do so. It offended me, and because it was a negative sweeping generalization of men made by a woman, it is thus a sexist and misandrous claim.

The original statement is a prime example of why men don't seek help for dealing with their emotions - disparaging claims that they don't really understand what is going on.

Your failure to see the offensiveness of the statement only adds to it.

Fnord, for someone who hates sweeping generalisations, you are awfully fond of using them yourself.

Willl you please stop implying that you speak for all men. It is very kind of you to offer to martyr yourself for me, but that's not the kind of help I came here looking for thankyou very much. [sarcasm].

We know what your opinion on the subject is - you made it perfectly clear the first time. This thread is not a competition, they won't be handing out prizes to the "winner" at the end of the thread. Nobody was trying to slight you at any point - you are just cherry picking arguments which are tangental to the subjest at hand so that you can rant about your favourite pet conspiracy theory.

Please - Shhhh, this is a serious and emotive subject that we're talking about. Stop trying to score points off people - nobody but you is keeping count.

If I had to provide a single cross-cultural explanation of the higher suicide rate among men in one sentence, I would use a term from engineering & security:

Failing badly.

I thought the original comment was wrong, perhaps even offensively so, but my remark to Fnord about projection was in relation to some of the things he was saying, which were obviously (in the lingo) coming from a place of pain, not his taking offense at the remark.

Had I had access to a gun at my worst moments, I very much doubt I'd still be here.

I've been thinking back over my difficult times, and wondering what, if anything, would have helped.

I had a breakdown starting when I was 14 til I was 20. Looking back, I can best typify it as some sort of schizoidesque episode. I don't know what triggered it. Well, a variety of causes.

I prefer to avoid my feelings. I may be alexithymic - I don't know. I generally prefer flat. I'd sooner be a bit sad than very happy. I'm happiest when a bit happy. Strong emotions are unsettling.

I don't drink, but I have spent a few days drunk now and then to get through really tought times. My inclination is to spend a lot of time in my head, and though advice from counsellors/psychologists/psychiatrists has been to not ruminate so much, I've found it far more of a help than a hindrance. None of the professionals were really up to task - I'm lucky to have Mrs Hopper, whose mind runs much as mine does. I don't know that I/we talk about feelings so much as psychological-experiential-observed behavioural stuff. Maybe that's the same as talking about feelings.

Certain art helps, of course. I'll return to particular poems or songs or films or books when things start sliding. I found William James very good when it came to untangling certain knots. Same with 'psychoanalysis lite' - Darian Leader, Adam Phillips.

This is what works for me. It's not really suitable for prescription.

I'm like that too. I like things to be even and calm.

I'm not sure there is a relationship between Alexithymia and suicidal thoughts. Isn't that kind of depression an extreme form of sadness? Or beyond sadness?

I have heard the catatonic state described with lack of emotion. However I've talked to people who are suicidal, I'm not sure it is the case they are not aware of their emotions. If anything they are too aware of their emotions.

The problem is putting their thoughts into perspective. From my second hand experience it is like a microcosm. It is hard to reach them.