Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

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Job 38 comes to mind

It's long
Read it if you have time


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%2038

Chutzpah-Ly yours

Zvi

Christians read the same bible to promote slavery as well as fight it and you think an unsupported reading of your garbage we will both understand the same way.



Regards
DL

Perhaps WP readers might like The Screw Tape Letters

Zvi
"Reader and Righter"

Besides, both Jew and Muslim have the same common ancestors: Jacob and Esau. When Jacob stole the blessing from Issac meant from Esau, it fulfilled the promise JHWH made to their mother Rebekah, as documented in Genesis 25.

As far as I'm concerned, the Jews and the Muslims will continue to make war against each other as both Jacob (Israel) and Esau fought during their lifetimes.

Jacob at the end saw Esau coming with lots of people.

Jacob started bowing and expected bad things happening

Esau was ready to forgive and even refused Jacob's offering
He did come to accept them after many refusals as per tradition of the time.

Things do go on and on and on and on and on...

Arabs, and Jews, have a common ancestry. Not "Muslims and Jews".

Or at least the two ethnic groups have a mythological common ancestry from a single family described in the Bible.

Jews are both a religion, and ethnic group. Muslims are a religion, but not an ethnic group.Arabs are an ethnic group, but not a religion.

And Islam did not exist until almost three thousand years after the time that Jacob and Esau lived according to the Bible.

Not so, at least did not intend to. I'll put your statements and mine together



I say:
- we humans are filled with injustice = no one is innocent
- you can lose all hope of being redeemed, but rather expect severe punishment from God = no one can escape suffering

But on the other side there's the belief that God's grace is so strong, that it is open to everyone = our escape



So I say:
- One thing we learn in the Old Convenant
- The other in the New
- The Old Convenant teaches us knowledge of sin and your injustice
- The New Convenant teaches us grace



it teaches us children that we need both:
- with getting knowledge of sin and injustice, we understand that we just cannot "steal" grace, we're unworthy
- with getting a sense of the depth of Gods grace, we understand that we just cannot reject it, because that would be an offence too
from that position we come to accept we cannot chose, our individuel will is useless, it cannot guide us, and we can finally come to accept God's will; our lack of control, his control

this is what in reformed theology is called "steps of grace", spiritual guide
also explains why there is first one convenant and than, later, another: first comes a sense of injustice, later a sense of grace, and then it's the dynamic between the two

of course you don't have to agree, you can find your arguments better than mine, that's fine; I just don't like the suggestion that in "traditional" Christianity people didn't think about these issues, justice and injustice, they just look for the solution elsewhere
You know, I would admit the gnostic solution to this problem is not an unintelligent one, but it presupposes a certain duality (benevolent God - malevolent Yahweh), and though this seems a solution to explain injustice, then they need arguments to explain this duality

This is a moral and legal issue and nowhere do you touch those issues.
Get thee behind me Satan.

Regards
DL

That's offensive.

You know, that's exactly how corporations sell products... convince you that you're flawed, and then offer the solution.

Yaweh = Allah except on a set of measure zero. They are the same Semitic Abrahamic Deity. The Abrahamic god is extremely unpleasant. The Christians latched on to a gnostic god, God the Father who is more pleasant but is probably senile which is why he has turned over operations to the Son....

The Gnostic God is not God the Father.

The Gnostic God is I am, and yes, we mean that man is the supreme creature and entity here.

The father and son thing is just metaphors we use to seek Gnosis within us.

Regards
DL

OK legal issues. Though we have different views, still like to react in this thread
So here's one legal issue: God may never kill the innocent
But ever occured he kills us all?
When in traditional christianity they say that we're full of injustice, under the Law, under punishment, they don't talk about punishment for a certain (criminal) act. They talk about the human condition, it's about us all, he kills us all.
Another legal issue: God may never apply such a kind of "group justice", only individual justice
But then this one: was there ever anyone who could say he freed himself from the human condition, from our state of disturbance, and thus rightfully claiming to be God himself, other than Jesus?

Wrong issues. See ya.

Regards
DL

*slightly confused*
as you wish then, I'll leave the thread

fortunately my avatar is still smiling

This thread sometimes leaves me confused
This thread sometimes leaves me
amused
This thread has nothing on our
I. Q's
Coming to a fortune cookie near
Yous

Zvi with a bit of spellin phun
"Reader and Righter"

I think the Baptists might disagree with you on that.