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GnosticBishop
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06 Sep 2016, 10:04 am

shlaifu wrote:
I'd like to add: we stopped needing gods. laws are decided on by the people, and ethics and morality are personal decisions, and "good" or "bad" are decided through the normalizing value of money.
we figured out a way. it's far from perfect, but allows for more personal freedom and is adaptive in a way dogma isn't...


No argument on this but it seems that the vast majority who still clam an affiliation to a religion will not agree with your "we stopped needing gods".

I know that a lot of them are just lying but there are so many ----

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friedmacguffins
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06 Sep 2016, 10:04 am

While you're coming up with new gods, why are you called a branch of Christianity and given a Christian title. Isn't that subversive.



GnosticBishop
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06 Sep 2016, 10:26 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
While you're coming up with new gods, why are you called a branch of Christianity and given a Christian title. Isn't that subversive.


I call it fitting.

I see Gnostic Christianity as being the original Chrestian religion whose name Christianity usurped when they tried and failed to make us disappear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... At-PAkgqls

Given that our scriptures and myths were written to directly argue against the Christian myth, when everyone knew that the bible was myth, it is not surprising to me that we would have Christian in our name.

Every religion has a Gnostic branch and usually they take the name of the religion that they are criticizing the most. That criticism is how a Gnostic will practice whatever religion he is most familiar with.

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friedmacguffins
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06 Sep 2016, 10:39 am

I call it culture jamming, like a pic of Mickey Mouse picking his nose.

Shall I assign random values to gnosticism, ie. it kicks puppies and eats from the trash, was responsible for the crash of the Hindenburg.

My opinions are valuable, and all speech is equal.

But I am more equal than others.

I have come from a continuous line of teachers which invented gnosticism...



GnosticBishop
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06 Sep 2016, 10:59 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
I call it culture jamming, like a pic of Mickey Mouse picking his nose.

Shall I assign random values to gnosticism, ie. it kicks puppies and eats from the trash, was responsible for the crash of the Hindenburg.

My opinions are valuable, and all speech is equal.

But I am more equal than others.

I have come from a continuous line of teachers which invented gnosticism...


Nice that you can know your genealogy that far back and know that you come from an intelligent line.

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DL



friedmacguffins
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06 Sep 2016, 12:35 pm

Doesn't gnosticism claim to be the true Christianity, in spite of being irreconcilable with mainstream doctrine?

And, can't any mythos, character, or storyline, be taken out of if's intended context. For instance, a Hansel, Gretel, Supersize Me mashup.

Is it on par with the real Brother's Grimm, or McD's advertising dept. Or, is it an example of cultural appropriation, which allows you to leverage the fame and hard work of others, in bad faith.



GnosticBishop
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06 Sep 2016, 2:44 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Doesn't gnosticism claim to be the true Christianity, in spite of being irreconcilable with mainstream doctrine?

And, can't any mythos, character, or storyline, be taken out of if's intended context. For instance, a Hansel, Gretel, Supersize Me mashup.

Is it on par with the real Brother's Grimm, or McD's advertising dept. Or, is it an example of cultural appropriation, which allows you to leverage the fame and hard work of others, in bad faith.


The only description I would agree with is that we do use the hard work of others just as progress has always been built on the progress of others.

I do believe that we were the original Chrestians whose name was usurped by Christianity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... At-PAkgqls

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DL



Ganondox
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06 Sep 2016, 7:13 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for “I am“, as the greatest expression of god. “I am” as spoken as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Man’s words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA


Because you don't know what you are talking about. Gods aren't invented, they are redefined. We STILL invent new gods by the reasoning gave here, if Allah is a different god from Yaweh, then any modern Christian notion of god is much different from that as the language is different and so are the attributes. Otherwise Allah is literally the same god as Yaweh, it's just slightly different theology, and a different language. Christians in Arabic speaking countries call God Allah. Saying that Allah is the last invented god is sure ignorance by any measure. Countless gods have actually been invented since then, like the Wiccan pantheon.


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naturalplastic
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06 Sep 2016, 7:40 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
What several (including myself) said above: in the ancient times each local culture independently invented a pantheon of gods for its local little valley. And then the trend was to winnow down the number of deities down in each culture (from polytheism down to monotheism), and also gods came to be thought of as universal (the gods we conceive of are the Gods of the whole world, not just of our locality).So we went from a thousand isolated tribes each with its own family of dozens of gods down to one deity for the whole planet (and the debate switched arguing and fighting over the nature of that one god).

So we already have a surplus overstocked warehouse of unused deities. So why invent new ones?


To find a good one with morals that exceed what the mainstream presently follow.

That is a fairly easy task.

Regards
DL


You're not talking about "inventing a new god". What you are talking about reinterpreting the existing Abrahamic god with modified theology.



friedmacguffins
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06 Sep 2016, 7:46 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
I do believe that we were the original Chrestians whose name was usurped by Christianity.


I am the real gnostic, whose name you have usurped. :wink:

Also, invented the Chevron symbol, and candy cane -- a Kim Jong Il figure, born under double rainbows.

At least, that's how I like to remember it.

The fact that I don't actually share any nameable beliefs with these people proves nothing. Don't judge me just because I like to use the same terminology.



Misslizard
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06 Sep 2016, 8:46 pm

During a lesson in meditation we were to visualize a specific Buddhist deity,then imagine the deity within ourselves.The teacher was specific that the deities did not exist but were symbolic representations of what is in ourselves.We were suppose to pray to them,I asked the monk if that meant I was praying to myself.His answer.Yes.
While this isn't Buddhist ,it sums it up well.

I sent my soul into the invisible
~

I sent my soul into the invisible,

Some letter of that after life to spell.

And by and by my soul returned to me

And answered, I myself am heaven and hell.

From the Rubiyat of Omar Khayyam.


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GnosticBishop
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07 Sep 2016, 12:14 pm

Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for “I am“, as the greatest expression of god. “I am” as spoken as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Man’s words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA


Because you don't know what you are talking about. Gods aren't invented, they are redefined. We STILL invent new gods by the reasoning gave here, if Allah is a different god from Yaweh, then any modern Christian notion of god is much different from that as the language is different and so are the attributes. Otherwise Allah is literally the same god as Yaweh, it's just slightly different theology, and a different language. Christians in Arabic speaking countries call God Allah. Saying that Allah is the last invented god is sure ignorance by any measure. Countless gods have actually been invented since then, like the Wiccan pantheon.


Wiccan is hardly new but to compare Yahweh who has a vague heaven to an Allah who is only interested in the sexual gratification of his sheeple is inventing a new god.

That god, like all others, will die eventually.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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07 Sep 2016, 12:19 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
What several (including myself) said above: in the ancient times each local culture independently invented a pantheon of gods for its local little valley. And then the trend was to winnow down the number of deities down in each culture (from polytheism down to monotheism), and also gods came to be thought of as universal (the gods we conceive of are the Gods of the whole world, not just of our locality).So we went from a thousand isolated tribes each with its own family of dozens of gods down to one deity for the whole planet (and the debate switched arguing and fighting over the nature of that one god).

So we already have a surplus overstocked warehouse of unused deities. So why invent new ones?


To find a good one with morals that exceed what the mainstream presently follow.

That is a fairly easy task.

Regards
DL


You're not talking about "inventing a new god". What you are talking about reinterpreting the existing Abrahamic god with modified theology.


No. I prefer that Christians recognize that they follow a vile demiurge and seek a better god.

Take all Yahweh's immoral laws and policies out of scriptures and there is nothing left of Yahweh. The same would apply to Allah, the Qur'an and Sharia.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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07 Sep 2016, 12:22 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
I do believe that we were the original Chrestians whose name was usurped by Christianity.


I am the real gnostic, whose name you have usurped. :wink:

Also, invented the Chevron symbol, and candy cane -- a Kim Jong Il figure, born under double rainbows.

At least, that's how I like to remember it.

The fact that I don't actually share any nameable beliefs with these people proves nothing. Don't judge me just because I like to use the same terminology.


The terminology is what you give and what you are judged on. There is nothing else to judge if we ignore your words and terms.

Do not fear judgement as that is how we all learn and grow.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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07 Sep 2016, 12:30 pm

Misslizard wrote:
During a lesson in meditation we were to visualize a specific Buddhist deity,then imagine the deity within ourselves.The teacher was specific that the deities did not exist but were symbolic representations of what is in ourselves.We were suppose to pray to them,I asked the monk if that meant I was praying to myself.His answer.Yes.
While this isn't Buddhist ,it sums it up well.

I sent my soul into the invisible
~

I sent my soul into the invisible,

Some letter of that after life to spell.

And by and by my soul returned to me

And answered, I myself am heaven and hell.

From the Rubiyat of Omar Khayyam.


If you look up Jung and Freud's Father Complex, you would see Freud saying basically the same thing.

I recommend meditation myself as a way to activate our pineal gland, which to the ancients, was the key to activation our right hemispheres and open us up to visions, which are just insight and the best advice we can find at any given time.

Regards
DL



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09 Sep 2016, 1:50 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for “I am“, as the greatest expression of god. “I am” as spoken as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Man’s words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA


Because you don't know what you are talking about. Gods aren't invented, they are redefined. We STILL invent new gods by the reasoning gave here, if Allah is a different god from Yaweh, then any modern Christian notion of god is much different from that as the language is different and so are the attributes. Otherwise Allah is literally the same god as Yaweh, it's just slightly different theology, and a different language. Christians in Arabic speaking countries call God Allah. Saying that Allah is the last invented god is sure ignorance by any measure. Countless gods have actually been invented since then, like the Wiccan pantheon.


Wiccan is hardly new but to compare Yahweh who has a vague heaven to an Allah who is only interested in the sexual gratification of his sheeple is inventing a new god.

That god, like all others, will die eventually.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Regards
DL


First off, Wicca IS new, it was invent in the 1950s. While it's based around a rival of older paganism, it's still very much a new religion. Then to your understanding of Islam is even more off base. I've studied Islam in college, your idea of Allah is utter nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with how he is described in the Quran. Like, sexual gratification of his people, seriously? Is this some blatant misinterpretation of "submission"? The main theological difference with Allah and Yaweh is that Allah is strictly immaterial and thus can't have offspring, while Yaweh is more personal.


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