OK, I have a disability, but I'm more right-wing

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nurseangela
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26 Aug 2016, 12:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

sly279 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

if you bar the noble peoples from south of the border from performing the menial jobs, surely you don't expect americans to pick up the slack and do those backbreaking jobs at near-slave labor wages, do you? that is the basic reason we let them into this country in the first place, to do those jobs that 99.99% of today's americans are just not suited for.

We need to help our own before helping others, millions of Americans need your help first.

A certain someone told us to "love your neighbor." Our neighbor isn't just our people, but is everyone.

In reality, one has to take care of themselves first and then they will be in a good place mentally, physically and financially to take care of others.

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Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2016, 8:18 pm

nurseangela wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

sly279 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

We need to help our own before helping others, millions of Americans need your help first.

A certain someone told us to "love your neighbor." Our neighbor isn't just our people, but is everyone.

In reality, one has to take care of themselves first and then they will be in a good place mentally, physically and financially to take care of others.

I recall Jesus stressing self sacrifice for others, even at the expense of oneself.

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auntblabby
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26 Aug 2016, 8:23 pm

there is an atavistic war between charity and self-preservation.

luan78zao
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26 Aug 2016, 11:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I recall Jesus stressing self sacrifice for others, even at the expense of oneself.

Wow! We have here, in this forum, an eyewitness to Jesus!

This thread has wandered down an odd road. Raise your hand, everybody who holds that sacrificing oneself to others is the moral ideal.

And – why do you believe that?

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auntblabby
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26 Aug 2016, 11:51 pm

luan78zao wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I recall Jesus stressing self sacrifice for others, even at the expense of oneself.

Wow! We have here, in this forum, an eyewitness to Jesus!

This thread has wandered down an odd road. Raise your hand, everybody who holds that sacrificing oneself to others is the moral ideal.

And – why do you believe that?

not quite "self sacrifice" other than in a mercenary sense, but SERVICE to others less fortunate, is the royal road to heaven.

sly279
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26 Aug 2016, 11:58 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

sly279 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

We need to help our own before helping others, millions of Americans need your help first.

A certain someone told us to "love your neighbor." Our neighbor isn't just our people, but is everyone.

In reality, one has to take care of themselves first and then they will be in a good place mentally, physically and financially to take care of others.

I recall Jesus stressing self sacrifice for others, even at the expense of oneself.

But what your talking about is sacrificing others to help illegal imigrants.

So hurting legal us citizens to help people who break laws.
We can't pick and chose laws either support them all or give in to anarchy. If it's ok for illegal immigrants to break law then it should be ok for me to walk in your house and take your stuff.

Kick them out and if they want they can come back the legal way.

Kraichgauer
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27 Aug 2016, 1:26 am

sly279 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

sly279 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

We need to help our own before helping others, millions of Americans need your help first.

A certain someone told us to "love your neighbor." Our neighbor isn't just our people, but is everyone.

In reality, one has to take care of themselves first and then they will be in a good place mentally, physically and financially to take care of others.

I recall Jesus stressing self sacrifice for others, even at the expense of oneself.

I don't think Jesus would distinguish between the legal and illegal - just those who needed help.

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Kraichgauer
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27 Aug 2016, 1:29 am

luan78zao wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I recall Jesus stressing self sacrifice for others, even at the expense of oneself.

Wow! We have here, in this forum, an eyewitness to Jesus!

This thread has wandered down an odd road. Raise your hand, everybody who holds that sacrificing oneself to others is the moral ideal.

And – why do you believe that?

Why do I believe it? Because someone sticking up for the underdog, and who offer salvation just out of love for us humans, really appeals to me.

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luan78zao
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27 Aug 2016, 10:23 am

So, that's one 'sort of' and one 'yes.' Not much of a response, but maybe there aren't many people still reading this thread.

And no reason given that doesn't involve faith and the afterlife. Is there no rational, earthly reason why altruistic self-sacrifice should be the moral ideal?

Kraichgauer
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27 Aug 2016, 1:45 pm

luan78zao wrote:

How is it a moral ideal to selfishly not help others? Even most atheists hold loving your neighbor to be an utmost value. The fact that we are social animals means we, by our very nature, have to depend on one another, otherwise our society ultimately collapses.

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luan78zao
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27 Aug 2016, 10:02 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

How is it a moral ideal to selfishly not help others?

Nobody said it was.

Quote:

Even most atheists

I'm not asking even most atheists, I'm asking you (and anybody else who wants to base public policy on the 'ideal' of altruistic self-sacrifice).

Quote:

hold loving your neighbor to be an utmost value.

That doesn't even make sense. Love is an emotion; an emotion is an involuntary response. Can you will yourself to love somebody?

Quote:

The fact that we are social animals

There are obvious advantages to living in a civilized society (but I'd rather be alone on a desert island than in a slave-pen society like Stalinist Russia) and most people enjoy some amount of voluntary social interaction. This may not be the ideal forum in which to argue about what a "social animal" the human is.

Quote:

means we, by our very nature, have to depend on one another, otherwise our society ultimately collapses.

Nonsense. I need groceries, the grocer needs customers; we trade to our mutual advantage – but it's an abuse of the language to say that we "depend" on one another, as a baby helplessly depends on its parents.

You're having trouble staying on topic here. Aside from 'Because Jesus says so,' why do you hold altruistic self-sacrifice to be the moral ideal?

Kraichgauer
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27 Aug 2016, 10:55 pm

^^^
I think I explained as well as I can.

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