This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does no
techstepgenr8tion
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GnosticBishop wrote:
The wording was designed to engage believers who, to me, are adoring a genocidal and immoral God.
Those who choose to argue God's existence, a waste of time to me, can do so.
Those who choose to argue God's existence, a waste of time to me, can do so.
But you're a Gnostic bishop!

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LyraLuthTinu wrote:
Allowing people to die is not the same as killing people.
True.
It is also true that to kill them as God is shown to do, instead of curing them of the reason behind his killing them, is not following the golden rule and is quite immoral.
Would you kill when you could just as easily cure?
I doubt it as you are likely more moral than the bible God. So are most Christians, and that is why I cannot understand why good people follow such an evil God.
Regards
DL
Grischa wrote:
if you say everything is interconnected, it almost sounds as "everything is one" in hinduism or buddhism
or isn't it like that?
or isn't it like that?
No. I'm just saying you can't take something out of context. This has nothing to do with any specific spirituality, it's just logical fact of existence.
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GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.
God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.
This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.
God then is clearly evil.
Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?
Regards
DL
God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.
This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.
God then is clearly evil.
Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?
Regards
DL
Your argument is full of holes. Just because you say something is irrefutable doesn't mean it is, but you're right, I can't refute it, because you don't even have enough support for your claim for their to be anything to refute.
You cannot refute it because if you compare God's kill rate to Satan's it becomes obvious who the evil one is.
You did not try to refute because you know you cannot justify your God killing when he could just as easily cure.
Regards
DL
Finally you reply, and you STILL failed to actually explain what the hell you were referring to. Burden of proof is on you to prove God kill's more people than Satan. Anyway, there is a whole rest of the thread where I actually did get into this stuff because other people actually had arguments with substance to discuss, so you're clearly wrong in my claim that "ou did not try to refute because you know you cannot justify your God killing when he could just as easily cure.".
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Last edited by Ganondox on 07 Dec 2016, 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
The wording was designed to engage believers who, to me, are adoring a genocidal and immoral God.
Those who choose to argue God's existence, a waste of time to me, can do so.
Those who choose to argue God's existence, a waste of time to me, can do so.
But you're a Gnostic bishop!

Indeed, and have maintained the purity of seeking God the way Jesus said we should all do and as the wise before him indicated was the way to go. Seeking God is a perpetual task as no one can know the mind of God.
http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2
This all applies to a supernatural God. The only God you can ever really find is the spark of the one inside of you.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Are you mentally rich or poor?
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Regards
DL
GnosticBishop wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?
Please cite the EXACT Bible verse that states that Jesus said this.
You must think that Jesus, seeing anyone break what he said was a highly important command, would not care or would think the law breaker to be good.
Can you think at all?
Regards
DL
Once again you fail to answer a simple question and instead make up a strawman argument for your opponent. You have absolutely no intellectual integrity.
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Ganondox wrote:
[q
Finally you reply, and you STILL failed to actually explain what the hell you were referring to. Burden of prove is on your to prove God kill's more people than Satan.
Finally you reply, and you STILL failed to actually explain what the hell you were referring to. Burden of prove is on your to prove God kill's more people than Satan.
If you know so little of what your bible says, then there is nothing I can tell you.
Perhaps these people can.
https://vimeo.com/7038401
Regards
DL
Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?
Please cite the EXACT Bible verse that states that Jesus said this.
You must think that Jesus, seeing anyone break what he said was a highly important command, would not care or would think the law breaker to be good.
Can you think at all?
Regards
DL
Once again you fail to answer a simple question and instead make up a strawman argument for your opponent. You have absolutely no intellectual integrity.
That would hurt if it came from one with at least half a brain.
Regards
DL
GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
The burden of proof lies on theists, as they are the ones making an extraordinary claim (i.e. a supernatural, omnipotent being is responsible for the universe). It's an unfalsifiable claim though, so it does not even work as a truth claim and cannot be examined in a logical or scientific manner.
Nope.
1. Saying God doesn't exist is as much of a claim as saying he does. To not make a claim is to be agnostic.
Yours is a logical fallacy as it is impossible to prove negative claims.
That is why it is the onus of the one making the positive claim of God existing to make his case.
For any to try to reverse that onus shows intellectual and moral dissonance as it is trying to cover a lie by shifting the onus.
Regards
DL
Nope. It's not impossible to prove negative claims, there are plenty of negative claims which it's perfectly possible to prove, like the nonexistence of four sides triangles. This is just a particular case of a negative claim which cannot proved, and the fact it is unprovable means it is logically an unproven claim.
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GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
[
Except there is nothing in the golden rule about murder.
Except there is nothing in the golden rule about murder.
Huh? I think there is as it covers all such situations.
Should God do "murder" unto others, when God, whether he can die or not, would not want himself "murdered"?
You can replace murdered above with just about anything evil as well as most good things.
That is why such reciprocity rules are so important and widespread.
Regards
DL
Prove God doesn't want to be murdered. Those of us who are actually interested in discussing things rather than just making sophist assertions already discussed this.
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naturalplastic wrote:
Im not actually trying to argue that "god is evil".
My point is that you cant judge any god you may postulate as existing with the same moral yardstick as you judge a human (like by using the Golden Rule, or the Ten Commandments, or by anything else). The rules that might apply in a resident of the Universe just cannot apply to a supernatural creator of that entire universe. But making that kind of judgement is just what the OP is trying to do.
My point is that you cant judge any god you may postulate as existing with the same moral yardstick as you judge a human (like by using the Golden Rule, or the Ten Commandments, or by anything else). The rules that might apply in a resident of the Universe just cannot apply to a supernatural creator of that entire universe. But making that kind of judgement is just what the OP is trying to do.
You say that God cannot be judged and that we cannot use our human yardstick.
You are correct as God cannot be known.
But the O.P. was Christian and bible related and that is the yardstick I am using.
It says we have God's own moral sense, --- they have become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil, and the bible itself tells us to judge all things, including God's goodness or evilness.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
But you can go ahead and make all kinds of excuses to not judge if you have that much fear of telling the truth.
Regards
DL
GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
[q
Finally you reply, and you STILL failed to actually explain what the hell you were referring to. Burden of prove is on your to prove God kill's more people than Satan.
Finally you reply, and you STILL failed to actually explain what the hell you were referring to. Burden of prove is on your to prove God kill's more people than Satan.
If you know so little of what your bible says, then there is nothing I can tell you.
Perhaps these people can.
https://vimeo.com/7038401
Regards
DL
I've read the entire bible from cover to cover. This issue isn't that I don't know what the bible says, it's that you suck at theology. No, I'm not going to watch your video, because you should be able to make your argument yourself, not resort on having someone do it for you.
(Also, I never said your claim that God's kill count is higher than Satan's is wrong, as from the position that Satan is powerless it is, but you still have the burden of proof, I can't debate you if there is nothing to be debated)
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Last edited by Ganondox on 07 Dec 2016, 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
[
Except there is nothing in the golden rule about murder.
Except there is nothing in the golden rule about murder.
Huh? I think there is as it covers all such situations.
Should God do "murder" unto others, when God, whether he can die or not, would not want himself "murdered"?
You can replace murdered above with just about anything evil as well as most good things.
That is why such reciprocity rules are so important and widespread.
Regards
DL
Prove God doesn't want to be murdered. Those of us who are actually interested in discussing things rather than just making sophist assertions already discussed this.
More inane garbage.
Prove that any healthy living creature or thing has a death wish.
You do not want to discuss. You want to waste my time.
Regards
DL
Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
[q
Finally you reply, and you STILL failed to actually explain what the hell you were referring to. Burden of prove is on your to prove God kill's more people than Satan.
Finally you reply, and you STILL failed to actually explain what the hell you were referring to. Burden of prove is on your to prove God kill's more people than Satan.
If you know so little of what your bible says, then there is nothing I can tell you.
Perhaps these people can.
https://vimeo.com/7038401
Regards
DL
I've read the entire bible from cover to cover. This issue isn't that I don't know what the bible says, it's that you suck at theology. No, I'm not going to watch your video, because you should be able to make your argument yourself, not resort on having someone do it for you.
(Also, I never said your claim that God's kill count is higher than Satan's is wrong, as from the position that Satan is powerless it is, but you still have the burden of proof, I can't debate you if there is nothing to be debated)
If powerless, then how could Satan, as the talking serpent, deceive Eve?
You are correct in that we have little to debate as you are not up to the task.
As you would say, give proof that you are and we can proceed.
Regards
DL
Grischa wrote:
but if death isn't inherently evil, what about the death of a child?
sorry if the question is not on topic
I come up with the question because I have here a book of A. Platonov, "Tsevengur". It is about communist Russia, a book from the 1930's. They have abolished Christianity. Now they have Communism. But they have a problem with mortality. Not mortality as such, but in the book a child is sick, very sick, and dies. And they try, but fail, and then one of the Communists replies: "well, as a result of Communism it lived a day longer than it would without". But of course they know it's nonsense
sorry if the question is not on topic
I come up with the question because I have here a book of A. Platonov, "Tsevengur". It is about communist Russia, a book from the 1930's. They have abolished Christianity. Now they have Communism. But they have a problem with mortality. Not mortality as such, but in the book a child is sick, very sick, and dies. And they try, but fail, and then one of the Communists replies: "well, as a result of Communism it lived a day longer than it would without". But of course they know it's nonsense
It does seem like Christians talk out of both sides of their mouth when saying death is not so bad, yet they will kill abortion doctors for doing what they said is not bad alt all when their God does it.
Intellectual and moral dissonance that and shows how Christianity can foul up good moral thinking.
Regards
DL
Adamantium wrote:
The typical English rendering of one of the Mosaic commandments is "thou shalt not kill" but according to Hebrew scholars, this is a poor translation that leads people into confused thinking.
The same system of commandments requires that the faithful kill transgressors of various rules (e.g., sorceresses.)
A more precise English translation is "thou shalt not murder" with murder understood to be unlawful killing.
Given a system that recognizes lawful and unlawful killing and that defines the will of God as the source of law, the idea that God can be accused of murder is untenable.
The same system of commandments requires that the faithful kill transgressors of various rules (e.g., sorceresses.)
A more precise English translation is "thou shalt not murder" with murder understood to be unlawful killing.
Given a system that recognizes lawful and unlawful killing and that defines the will of God as the source of law, the idea that God can be accused of murder is untenable.
If Christians do not see God's genocide of man as evil, then they cannot condemn Hitler and his ilk for doing less than what they forgive their God for doing. Especially given that God can cure with the same effort.
Regards
DL