If there was really a God, bad things wouldn't happen.

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TheSpectrum
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17 Jan 2017, 9:41 pm

leejosepho wrote:

TheSpectrum wrote:

Right and wrong is not defined in...anything but our own heads.

Says who, and where is the proof?

Well, looks like we can at least agree on the sentence that followed it as you chose not to focus there.

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leejosepho
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17 Jan 2017, 9:42 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

What person? Asking what question?

That person who had asked the question I had answered, and then you had questioned my answer.

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naturalplastic
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17 Jan 2017, 10:08 pm

leejosepho wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

What person? Asking what question?

That person who had asked the question I had answered, and then you had questioned my answer.

That person has a name: LostOnEarth.

What LOE asked was "why did a perfect God make an imperfect creation?"

Humans obviously were already imperfect from the moment God created them or the humans wouldnt have disobeyed God in that fruit tree fiasco. And humans would not have done imperfect things to disobey God later in the story (Noah et al) if they hadnt already been imperfect in nature by the way God created them.

leejosepho
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17 Jan 2017, 10:23 pm

TheSpectrum wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

TheSpectrum wrote:

Right and wrong is not defined in...anything but our own heads.

Says who, and where is the proof?

Well, looks like we can at least agree on the sentence that followed it as you chose not to focus there.

Not at all, and the statement that followed was merely redundant. I say there *is* a universal "right and wrong" established by a Sovereign Creator but have no more proof to offer than those who say there is neither. However, my personal conclusion was reached far more scientifically than the other!

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leejosepho
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17 Jan 2017, 10:26 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Humans obviously were already imperfect from the moment God created them or the humans wouldn't have disobeyed God...

I would not consider robotic as being perfection.

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naturalplastic
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17 Jan 2017, 11:28 pm

leejosepho wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

Humans obviously were already imperfect from the moment God created them or the humans wouldn't have disobeyed God...

I would not consider robotic as being perfection.

But God DOES consider robotic "perfect", and since we fail at being robotic God judged as all as being imperfect.

leejosepho
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18 Jan 2017, 9:48 am

naturalplastic wrote:

But God DOES consider robotic "perfect"...

Ah, now you are twisting words and perceptions for rhetorical purpose as well as using "perfect" to describe morality where this thread is more about things such as birth defects and/or disturbing events in life. In any case, my own efforts at obedience are far from robotic and I am completely free (although not without consequence) to disobey whenever I might foolishly wish.

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naturalplastic
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18 Jan 2017, 1:29 pm

leejosepho wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

But God DOES consider robotic "perfect"...

But God did the judging. And judged us as imperfect. Thats the whole reason he punished us.

So why would a perfect God make imperfect creations?

leejosepho
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18 Jan 2017, 4:15 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

...why would a perfect God make imperfect creations?

Now we have come full circle with a loaded, rhetorical question and I would again ask my own question: Who said He did and where is the proof? I believe mankind was perfect at creation while having free will to either obey or disobey a perfect Creator and then messed things up and brought trouble upon himself resulting in imperfect reproduction.

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rvacountrysinger
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18 Jan 2017, 6:36 pm

We live in a fallen world . Sin is what separates us from God. To get back to God, we have Jesus Christ, our Lord and intercessor. The idea that God could not exist because bad things happen, I believe is a common atheist argument. Grasping at straws. Its used to say God isn't ever in control of the situation. We are given free will . Everyday we make choices. God knows what will do and what we think before we do our own. That is why we have these things in our lives we call bad. Its a result of our sinful nature.

Robert312
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18 Jan 2017, 11:48 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:

But someone who was born in Asia or the Americas or the Islands knew absolutely nothing about Jesus. There were no telephones or mail. Yet these people were doomed to die and go to Hell because they did not know Jesus and no one ever told them about Jesus. There was no way for them to know. Yet they were punished anyway.

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naturalplastic
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19 Jan 2017, 12:41 am

leejosepho wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

...why would a perfect God make imperfect creations?

God himself did the judging. And judged his own creation flawed.
Are you questioning God's judgment?

leejosepho
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19 Jan 2017, 8:26 am

naturalplastic wrote:

God himself did the judging. And judged his own creation flawed.

Not at the time of creation.

Robert312 wrote:

rvacountrysinger wrote:

We live in a fallen world . Sin is what separates us from God. To get back to God, we have Jesus Christ, our Lord and intercessor...

I highly doubt that is true, just some typical rhetoric from the pulpit.

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naturalplastic
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19 Jan 2017, 8:44 am

leejosepho wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

God himself did the judging. And judged his own creation flawed.

Not at the time of creation.

Robert312 wrote:

rvacountrysinger wrote:

We live in a fallen world . Sin is what separates us from God. To get back to God, we have Jesus Christ, our Lord and intercessor...

I highly doubt that is true, just some typical rhetoric from the pulpit.

highly doubt that what is true?

naturalplastic
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19 Jan 2017, 8:47 am

leejosepho wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

God himself did the judging. And judged his own creation flawed.

Not at the time of creation.
.

So God didnt realize that what he created was flawed by his own standards until the thing that he made (humans) failed to perform to his standards a fortnight later?

So God is too flawed to have known that what he made was also flawed?

leejosepho
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19 Jan 2017, 8:58 am

naturalplastic wrote:

highly doubt that what is true?

That "someone who was born in Asia or the Americas or the Islands knew absolutely nothing about Jesus...were doomed to die and go to Hell because they did not know Jesus..."

naturalplastic wrote:

So God didn't realize that what he created was flawed by his own standards...

You will never be able to engage me in discussion over that kind of rhetoric. I typically begin at basic truths and move forward rather than at something problematic moving backward.

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