Alt Right
funeralxempire
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Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,022
Location: Right over your left shoulder
21 May 2017, 6:07 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I am not ready to submit to extinction, even if it is unrealistic gotta maintain some hope I suppose.
I wouldn't worry too much about things outside of our control especially when we'll likely all be gone before it happens (no promises though).
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,127
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
21 May 2017, 7:01 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JLD wrote:
what can be more beautifull than ruins. it so poetic.
Long after we're gone everything we've built will be reclaimed by nature, it's inevitable and only a matter of time. Some things will pass much more quickly than intended though, about 988 years sooner than expected in this case.
But how do you know we'll be gone? I am sure human population could be greatly diminished and abandoned structures and what not would be reclaimed by nature but not so sure about all humans dying out before the planet dies. It is inevitable that someday the sun will die which will destroy this planet...and if by then there are still humans and we haven't found a new world or have adequate space travel to get there then humanity will be obliterated.
Provided there aren't humans in other parts of the universe that is...who knows.
There aren't humans in other parts of the universe. Unless some advanced extraterrestrial lifeform has decided to keep some of us for whatever reason they might want to have some humans around we'd have no means by which to leave, and to suggest that's occurred without any evidence is Alex Jones tier insanity. It's a nice fantasy or thought experiment, but not something that should be considered as having actually happened.
I'm not certain that collapse of this civilization will also mean the extinction of the species, but we're unlikely to ever reach this position again if it happens because we won't have the benefit of fossil fuels next time around. If we adopt other sources of energy before fossil fuels are too depleted we might make it past the hurdle that running out of them will represent, but if not expect our energy dependent civilization to collapse.
Supposing we're around until the end of the planet, whether we're a global civilization, scattered tribes or a bunch of independent nation-states, we won't be the same species we are now, just like we're not the same species as Homo erectus. Selective pressures and genetic drift ensure that no species remains exactly the same forever.
And if we manage to make it off this rock we likely will reach a point where we have our own new place (or places) and won't need to keep a bedroom in mom's increasingly dilapidated, over-exploited home.
How we know there are no humans in other parts of the universe, there is nothing to say we've only occurred on earth. They found a space rock with traces of THC, meaning THC one of the active chemicals in marijuana does not only occur on our planet...so what is to say human life is distinctive to this planet if a chemical found in a plant here apparently exists elsewhere? http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/meteorite-fragment-contains-trace-amounts-of-thc-claims-nasa-expert/
*or perhaps it was a hoax, I cannot find definitive evidence either way...it seemed pretty legitimate the first time I saw it though.*
And even if not exactly human what is to say there aren't intelligent humanoid type beings other places in the universe? The trouble with any of that is we simply don't know...the universe is vast so I don't buy the argument we would have already had to run into other humans or humanoid type aliens if they exist because we have no objective point to compare it to.
That said yeah there are difficulties but it is certainly possible humans can survive for much longer if we preserve things and advance technology...though a lot of factors are involved in that, if the world just diminishes to chaos then it makes it less likely we'd get that far.
_________________
Eat the rich, feed the poor. No not literally idiot, cannibalism is gross.
21 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Swearing, parties, loud music, low-income jobs, pot, sex, caffeine, sugar, fast food, alcohol, cocaine, tattoos, piercings, and cigarettes.
I'm going to be honest, you are going to have jobs where someone who did those things is sitting next to you, and that person may be the nicest person and most helpful person there is. Be careful of who you judge. Adding to that, the person may be getting the job, because the employer saw this "drug addict" work his or her butt off to get the job. Don't be a drug addict, but also don't judge people because they were one. Adding to that, the cops did not tell you to be a bully to these people in your school orientations.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,142
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 May 2017, 7:26 pm
Aristophanes wrote:
JLD wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JLD wrote:
what can be more beautifull than ruins. it so poetic.
Long after we're gone everything we've built will be reclaimed by nature, it's inevitable and only a matter of time. Some things will pass much more quickly than intended though, about 988 years sooner than expected in this case.
But how do you know we'll be gone? I am sure human population could be greatly diminished and abandoned structures and what not would be reclaimed by nature but not so sure about all humans dying out before the planet dies. It is inevitable that someday the sun will die which will destroy this planet...and if by then there are still humans and we haven't found a new world or have adequate space travel to get there then humanity will be obliterated.
Provided there aren't humans in other parts of the universe that is...who knows.
How optimistic we at the verge of WW3 btw... I think there are 1 maximum 3 years left. Mankind was unsuccessful experiment. Now is time to close it. But it should be grandious final ...as uverture to Tristan and Isolda by Richard Wagner...do you know what i mean...
The same Richard Wagner that was a communist and most likely half-Jewish? If only the Nazi's had done their research they wouldn't come off as such hypocrites.
Hitler so loved Wagner because he was such an Antisemite, regardless if he himself had any Jewish blood (Hitler, and his sinistr henchman, Reinhardt Heydrich, also had Jewish ancestry). In fact, it was Wagner's hatred of Jews that had ruined his friendship with Nietszche (I know, spelling).
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
funeralxempire
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Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,022
Location: Right over your left shoulder
21 May 2017, 7:54 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JLD wrote:
what can be more beautifull than ruins. it so poetic.
Long after we're gone everything we've built will be reclaimed by nature, it's inevitable and only a matter of time. Some things will pass much more quickly than intended though, about 988 years sooner than expected in this case.
But how do you know we'll be gone? I am sure human population could be greatly diminished and abandoned structures and what not would be reclaimed by nature but not so sure about all humans dying out before the planet dies. It is inevitable that someday the sun will die which will destroy this planet...and if by then there are still humans and we haven't found a new world or have adequate space travel to get there then humanity will be obliterated.
Provided there aren't humans in other parts of the universe that is...who knows.
There aren't humans in other parts of the universe. Unless some advanced extraterrestrial lifeform has decided to keep some of us for whatever reason they might want to have some humans around we'd have no means by which to leave, and to suggest that's occurred without any evidence is Alex Jones tier insanity. It's a nice fantasy or thought experiment, but not something that should be considered as having actually happened.
I'm not certain that collapse of this civilization will also mean the extinction of the species, but we're unlikely to ever reach this position again if it happens because we won't have the benefit of fossil fuels next time around. If we adopt other sources of energy before fossil fuels are too depleted we might make it past the hurdle that running out of them will represent, but if not expect our energy dependent civilization to collapse.
Supposing we're around until the end of the planet, whether we're a global civilization, scattered tribes or a bunch of independent nation-states, we won't be the same species we are now, just like we're not the same species as Homo erectus. Selective pressures and genetic drift ensure that no species remains exactly the same forever.
And if we manage to make it off this rock we likely will reach a point where we have our own new place (or places) and won't need to keep a bedroom in mom's increasingly dilapidated, over-exploited home.
How we know there are no humans in other parts of the universe, there is nothing to say we've only occurred on earth. They found a space rock with traces of THC, meaning THC one of the active chemicals in marijuana does not only occur on our planet...so what is to say human life is distinctive to this planet if a chemical found in a plant here apparently exists elsewhere? http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/meteorite-fragment-contains-trace-amounts-of-thc-claims-nasa-expert/
*or perhaps it was a hoax, I cannot find definitive evidence either way...it seemed pretty legitimate the first time I saw it though.*
And even if not exactly human what is to say there aren't intelligent humanoid type beings other places in the universe? The trouble with any of that is we simply don't know...the universe is vast so I don't buy the argument we would have already had to run into other humans or humanoid type aliens if they exist because we have no objective point to compare it to.
That said yeah there are difficulties but it is certainly possible humans can survive for much longer if we preserve things and advance technology...though a lot of factors are involved in that, if the world just diminishes to chaos then it makes it less likely we'd get that far.
I'm blaming contamination of the sample, but maybe that's just because I find resin on stuff in my room too often to not jump to that conclusion.
The odds of finding a chemical and finding a species aren't nearly the same though. Finding humanoid aliens seems far more likely than finding humans in space, and the odds of finding humanoid aliens seems quite small compared to the odds of finding life that's absolutely nothing like what we're familiar with. I'm not at all skeptical of the idea of some sort of life existing elsewhere in the universe (I believe it exists), but finding life that we might be able to relate to in anyway seems much less likely.
Basically in order of diminishing likelihood:
Life
Fauna
Megafauna
Intelligent megafauna
Intelligent megafauna capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and reaching a similar level of advancement as we've achieved
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their planet
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their system
Space-faring civilizations like exist in sci-fi
Space-faring civilizations like exist in space opera
Other humans
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell
21 May 2017, 9:09 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JLD wrote:
what can be more beautifull than ruins. it so poetic.
Long after we're gone everything we've built will be reclaimed by nature, it's inevitable and only a matter of time. Some things will pass much more quickly than intended though, about 988 years sooner than expected in this case.
But how do you know we'll be gone? I am sure human population could be greatly diminished and abandoned structures and what not would be reclaimed by nature but not so sure about all humans dying out before the planet dies. It is inevitable that someday the sun will die which will destroy this planet...and if by then there are still humans and we haven't found a new world or have adequate space travel to get there then humanity will be obliterated.
Provided there aren't humans in other parts of the universe that is...who knows.
There aren't humans in other parts of the universe. Unless some advanced extraterrestrial lifeform has decided to keep some of us for whatever reason they might want to have some humans around we'd have no means by which to leave, and to suggest that's occurred without any evidence is Alex Jones tier insanity. It's a nice fantasy or thought experiment, but not something that should be considered as having actually happened.
I'm not certain that collapse of this civilization will also mean the extinction of the species, but we're unlikely to ever reach this position again if it happens because we won't have the benefit of fossil fuels next time around. If we adopt other sources of energy before fossil fuels are too depleted we might make it past the hurdle that running out of them will represent, but if not expect our energy dependent civilization to collapse.
Supposing we're around until the end of the planet, whether we're a global civilization, scattered tribes or a bunch of independent nation-states, we won't be the same species we are now, just like we're not the same species as Homo erectus. Selective pressures and genetic drift ensure that no species remains exactly the same forever.
And if we manage to make it off this rock we likely will reach a point where we have our own new place (or places) and won't need to keep a bedroom in mom's increasingly dilapidated, over-exploited home.
How we know there are no humans in other parts of the universe, there is nothing to say we've only occurred on earth. They found a space rock with traces of THC, meaning THC one of the active chemicals in marijuana does not only occur on our planet...so what is to say human life is distinctive to this planet if a chemical found in a plant here apparently exists elsewhere? http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/meteorite-fragment-contains-trace-amounts-of-thc-claims-nasa-expert/
*or perhaps it was a hoax, I cannot find definitive evidence either way...it seemed pretty legitimate the first time I saw it though.*
And even if not exactly human what is to say there aren't intelligent humanoid type beings other places in the universe? The trouble with any of that is we simply don't know...the universe is vast so I don't buy the argument we would have already had to run into other humans or humanoid type aliens if they exist because we have no objective point to compare it to.
That said yeah there are difficulties but it is certainly possible humans can survive for much longer if we preserve things and advance technology...though a lot of factors are involved in that, if the world just diminishes to chaos then it makes it less likely we'd get that far.
I'm blaming contamination of the sample, but maybe that's just because I find resin on stuff in my room too often to not jump to that conclusion.
The odds of finding a chemical and finding a species aren't nearly the same though. Finding humanoid aliens seems far more likely than finding humans in space, and the odds of finding humanoid aliens seems quite small compared to the odds of finding life that's absolutely nothing like what we're familiar with. I'm not at all skeptical of the idea of some sort of life existing elsewhere in the universe (I believe it exists), but finding life that we might be able to relate to in anyway seems much less likely.
Basically in order of diminishing likelihood:
Life
Fauna
Megafauna
Intelligent megafauna
Intelligent megafauna capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and reaching a similar level of advancement as we've achieved
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their planet
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their system
Space-faring civilizations like exist in sci-fi
Space-faring civilizations like exist in space opera
Other humans
continuation:
space-faring time-traveling civilizations,
space-faring time-traveling multi-dimension hopping civilizations,
space-faring time-traveling multi-dimension hopping civilizations with super hero powers,
space-faring time-traveling multi-dimension hopping civilizations with super hero powers that smoke copious amounts of marijuana, exhale onto asteroids and send the asteroids to inferior civilizations because "it's just funny brah."
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,127
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
21 May 2017, 9:15 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JLD wrote:
what can be more beautifull than ruins. it so poetic.
Long after we're gone everything we've built will be reclaimed by nature, it's inevitable and only a matter of time. Some things will pass much more quickly than intended though, about 988 years sooner than expected in this case.
But how do you know we'll be gone? I am sure human population could be greatly diminished and abandoned structures and what not would be reclaimed by nature but not so sure about all humans dying out before the planet dies. It is inevitable that someday the sun will die which will destroy this planet...and if by then there are still humans and we haven't found a new world or have adequate space travel to get there then humanity will be obliterated.
Provided there aren't humans in other parts of the universe that is...who knows.
There aren't humans in other parts of the universe. Unless some advanced extraterrestrial lifeform has decided to keep some of us for whatever reason they might want to have some humans around we'd have no means by which to leave, and to suggest that's occurred without any evidence is Alex Jones tier insanity. It's a nice fantasy or thought experiment, but not something that should be considered as having actually happened.
I'm not certain that collapse of this civilization will also mean the extinction of the species, but we're unlikely to ever reach this position again if it happens because we won't have the benefit of fossil fuels next time around. If we adopt other sources of energy before fossil fuels are too depleted we might make it past the hurdle that running out of them will represent, but if not expect our energy dependent civilization to collapse.
Supposing we're around until the end of the planet, whether we're a global civilization, scattered tribes or a bunch of independent nation-states, we won't be the same species we are now, just like we're not the same species as Homo erectus. Selective pressures and genetic drift ensure that no species remains exactly the same forever.
And if we manage to make it off this rock we likely will reach a point where we have our own new place (or places) and won't need to keep a bedroom in mom's increasingly dilapidated, over-exploited home.
How we know there are no humans in other parts of the universe, there is nothing to say we've only occurred on earth. They found a space rock with traces of THC, meaning THC one of the active chemicals in marijuana does not only occur on our planet...so what is to say human life is distinctive to this planet if a chemical found in a plant here apparently exists elsewhere? http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/meteorite-fragment-contains-trace-amounts-of-thc-claims-nasa-expert/
*or perhaps it was a hoax, I cannot find definitive evidence either way...it seemed pretty legitimate the first time I saw it though.*
And even if not exactly human what is to say there aren't intelligent humanoid type beings other places in the universe? The trouble with any of that is we simply don't know...the universe is vast so I don't buy the argument we would have already had to run into other humans or humanoid type aliens if they exist because we have no objective point to compare it to.
That said yeah there are difficulties but it is certainly possible humans can survive for much longer if we preserve things and advance technology...though a lot of factors are involved in that, if the world just diminishes to chaos then it makes it less likely we'd get that far.
I'm blaming contamination of the sample, but maybe that's just because I find resin on stuff in my room too often to not jump to that conclusion.
The odds of finding a chemical and finding a species aren't nearly the same though. Finding humanoid aliens seems far more likely than finding humans in space, and the odds of finding humanoid aliens seems quite small compared to the odds of finding life that's absolutely nothing like what we're familiar with. I'm not at all skeptical of the idea of some sort of life existing elsewhere in the universe (I believe it exists), but finding life that we might be able to relate to in anyway seems much less likely.
Basically in order of diminishing likelihood:
Life
Fauna
Megafauna
Intelligent megafauna
Intelligent megafauna capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and reaching a similar level of advancement as we've achieved
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their planet
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their system
Space-faring civilizations like exist in sci-fi
Space-faring civilizations like exist in space opera
Other humans
That makes since but its more a matter of how do we know for sure until it can be proven or disproven, what if it only exists in sci-fi because we haven't discovered it yet. Also as much as people may not believe it I am certain I met some space beings...they fell like fire-works and then stopped above me after dancing around in the sky to do a cool light pattern before they left I was sober and I had two other people who were sober with me so it was not a drug induced sighting. Nothing human about them as far as how they looked, but they were so freaking happy. So I admit based on that experience I am biased towards other life existing even if we would not immediately recognize it as life.
_________________
Eat the rich, feed the poor. No not literally idiot, cannibalism is gross.
22 May 2017, 4:31 am
ZachGoodwin wrote:
I think I made the mistake of assuming again. Here I thought because Sweetleaf was making a reference to drugs and her story to them, and it turns out I was in a thread with a bunch of people talking about science fiction starships and galactic stuff.
I need to stop assuming.
I need to stop assuming.
we all do it often.)
22 May 2017, 8:24 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JLD wrote:
what can be more beautifull than ruins. it so poetic.
Long after we're gone everything we've built will be reclaimed by nature, it's inevitable and only a matter of time. Some things will pass much more quickly than intended though, about 988 years sooner than expected in this case.
But how do you know we'll be gone? I am sure human population could be greatly diminished and abandoned structures and what not would be reclaimed by nature but not so sure about all humans dying out before the planet dies. It is inevitable that someday the sun will die which will destroy this planet...and if by then there are still humans and we haven't found a new world or have adequate space travel to get there then humanity will be obliterated.
Provided there aren't humans in other parts of the universe that is...who knows.
There aren't humans in other parts of the universe. Unless some advanced extraterrestrial lifeform has decided to keep some of us for whatever reason they might want to have some humans around we'd have no means by which to leave, and to suggest that's occurred without any evidence is Alex Jones tier insanity. It's a nice fantasy or thought experiment, but not something that should be considered as having actually happened.
I'm not certain that collapse of this civilization will also mean the extinction of the species, but we're unlikely to ever reach this position again if it happens because we won't have the benefit of fossil fuels next time around. If we adopt other sources of energy before fossil fuels are too depleted we might make it past the hurdle that running out of them will represent, but if not expect our energy dependent civilization to collapse.
Supposing we're around until the end of the planet, whether we're a global civilization, scattered tribes or a bunch of independent nation-states, we won't be the same species we are now, just like we're not the same species as Homo erectus. Selective pressures and genetic drift ensure that no species remains exactly the same forever.
And if we manage to make it off this rock we likely will reach a point where we have our own new place (or places) and won't need to keep a bedroom in mom's increasingly dilapidated, over-exploited home.
How we know there are no humans in other parts of the universe, there is nothing to say we've only occurred on earth. They found a space rock with traces of THC, meaning THC one of the active chemicals in marijuana does not only occur on our planet...so what is to say human life is distinctive to this planet if a chemical found in a plant here apparently exists elsewhere? http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/meteorite-fragment-contains-trace-amounts-of-thc-claims-nasa-expert/
*or perhaps it was a hoax, I cannot find definitive evidence either way...it seemed pretty legitimate the first time I saw it though.*
And even if not exactly human what is to say there aren't intelligent humanoid type beings other places in the universe? The trouble with any of that is we simply don't know...the universe is vast so I don't buy the argument we would have already had to run into other humans or humanoid type aliens if they exist because we have no objective point to compare it to.
That said yeah there are difficulties but it is certainly possible humans can survive for much longer if we preserve things and advance technology...though a lot of factors are involved in that, if the world just diminishes to chaos then it makes it less likely we'd get that far.
I'm blaming contamination of the sample, but maybe that's just because I find resin on stuff in my room too often to not jump to that conclusion.
The odds of finding a chemical and finding a species aren't nearly the same though. Finding humanoid aliens seems far more likely than finding humans in space, and the odds of finding humanoid aliens seems quite small compared to the odds of finding life that's absolutely nothing like what we're familiar with. I'm not at all skeptical of the idea of some sort of life existing elsewhere in the universe (I believe it exists), but finding life that we might be able to relate to in anyway seems much less likely.
Basically in order of diminishing likelihood:
Life
Fauna
Megafauna
Intelligent megafauna
Intelligent megafauna capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and reaching a similar level of advancement as we've achieved
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their planet
Intelligent humanoids capable of creating something recognizable as civilization and capable of exploring beyond their system
Space-faring civilizations like exist in sci-fi
Space-faring civilizations like exist in space opera
Other humans
That makes since but its more a matter of how do we know for sure until it can be proven or disproven, what if it only exists in sci-fi because we haven't discovered it yet. Also as much as people may not believe it I am certain I met some space beings...they fell like fire-works and then stopped above me after dancing around in the sky to do a cool light pattern before they left I was sober and I had two other people who were sober with me so it was not a drug induced sighting. Nothing human about them as far as how they looked, but they were so freaking happy. So I admit based on that experience I am biased towards other life existing even if we would not immediately recognize it as life.
Earth has daffodils. The daffodil species, and its genome, are the product of four billion years of evolution on this planet. An earth like planet a thousand light years away may have independently evolved its own thousands of species of flowering planets, and may well have an organism that outwardly resembles a daffodil. But they couldn't literally be the same species as terrestrial daffodils. They would have a different genome that was the end product of a different several billion years of evolution on a separate planet from earth.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
22 May 2017, 8:36 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
Earth has daffodils. The daffodil species, and its genome, are the product of four billion years of evolution on this planet. An earth like planet a thousand light years away may have independently evolved its own thousands of species of flowering planets, and may well have an organism that outwardly resembles a daffodil. But they couldn't literally be the same species as terrestrial daffodils. They would have a different genome that was the end product of a different several billion years of evolution on a separate planet from earth.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
It depends, if you throw down a zillion dice, the number 1 million + 1 is gonna pop up quite a few times. You keep rolling those dice and the number you're looking for will eventually pop up. It's a matter of how many opportunities you have to throw the dice, and that's impossible to say with our current ability to see inside other galaxies and actually catalog everything. Point being it's possible some other planet out there has the exact same conditions as ours, and could go through the exact same process. It could also be that life is determinate, and if it evolves at all it has to take the exact same steps life on this planet has taken to evolve, thus every intelligent life form at our stage of development would be human.
*edit: not that I prescribe to either two theories I proposed, merely I can't deny the possibility of either with the evidence at hand.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,022
Location: Right over your left shoulder
22 May 2017, 8:48 pm
Aristophanes wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Earth has daffodils. The daffodil species, and its genome, are the product of four billion years of evolution on this planet. An earth like planet a thousand light years away may have independently evolved its own thousands of species of flowering planets, and may well have an organism that outwardly resembles a daffodil. But they couldn't literally be the same species as terrestrial daffodils. They would have a different genome that was the end product of a different several billion years of evolution on a separate planet from earth.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
It depends, if you throw down a zillion dice, the number 1 million + 1 is gonna pop up quite a few times. You keep rolling those dice and the number you're looking for will eventually pop up. It's a matter of how many opportunities you have to throw the dice, and that's impossible to say with our current ability to see inside other galaxies and actually catalog everything. Point being it's possible some other planet out there has the exact same conditions as ours, and could go through the exact same process. It could also be that life is determinate, and if it evolves at all it has to take the exact same steps life on this planet has taken to evolve, thus every intelligent life form at our stage of development would be human.
*edit: not that I prescribe to either two theories I proposed, merely I can't deny the possibility of either with the evidence at hand.
It still wouldn't be the same though. Are you familiar with convergent evolution? Basically the general idea is that selective pressures can create two very, very similar lifeforms that aren't actually related closely.
If we were to ever uncover human-like life that exactly resembled H. sapien they wouldn't actually be H. sapien, they'd be something else with their own unique genetic heritage that just so happens to resemble us.
I suppose with an infinite number of universes there might be one with humans all over the place, but there'd be multitudes more with pseudo-humans in all those places that just appear the same but aren't.
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell
22 May 2017, 9:15 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Earth has daffodils. The daffodil species, and its genome, are the product of four billion years of evolution on this planet. An earth like planet a thousand light years away may have independently evolved its own thousands of species of flowering planets, and may well have an organism that outwardly resembles a daffodil. But they couldn't literally be the same species as terrestrial daffodils. They would have a different genome that was the end product of a different several billion years of evolution on a separate planet from earth.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
It depends, if you throw down a zillion dice, the number 1 million + 1 is gonna pop up quite a few times. You keep rolling those dice and the number you're looking for will eventually pop up. It's a matter of how many opportunities you have to throw the dice, and that's impossible to say with our current ability to see inside other galaxies and actually catalog everything. Point being it's possible some other planet out there has the exact same conditions as ours, and could go through the exact same process. It could also be that life is determinate, and if it evolves at all it has to take the exact same steps life on this planet has taken to evolve, thus every intelligent life form at our stage of development would be human.
*edit: not that I prescribe to either two theories I proposed, merely I can't deny the possibility of either with the evidence at hand.
It still wouldn't be the same though. Are you familiar with convergent evolution? Basically the general idea is that selective pressures can create two very, very similar lifeforms that aren't actually related closely.
If we were to ever uncover human-like life that exactly resembled H. sapien they wouldn't actually be H. sapien, they'd be something else with their own unique genetic heritage that just so happens to resemble us.
I suppose with an infinite number of universes there might be one with humans all over the place, but there'd be multitudes more with pseudo-humans in all those places that just appear the same but aren't.
Yes, but it still doesn't preclude the possibility, and it doesn't necessarily take infinity to reproduce. You're right what I'm claiming is an exact mirror of our planet, down to 4.4 billion years of evolution, geological formation and degradation. The species that arose would be identical cloned genomes since they'd have gone through the exact same process of evolution as us. Covergence, drift, all of it would be identical. And again, the universe could be deterministic, meaning life could only evolve under a limited set of conditions in a clear direction of evolution that leads directly to a human species. And, until we find evidence of other life outside our planet, it could be possible we live in a special bubble and are the only life in the entirety of the universe. All of these are unlikely, true, but they can't be discounted with our current understanding.
22 May 2017, 9:54 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Earth has daffodils. The daffodil species, and its genome, are the product of four billion years of evolution on this planet. An earth like planet a thousand light years away may have independently evolved its own thousands of species of flowering planets, and may well have an organism that outwardly resembles a daffodil. But they couldn't literally be the same species as terrestrial daffodils. They would have a different genome that was the end product of a different several billion years of evolution on a separate planet from earth.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
It depends, if you throw down a zillion dice, the number 1 million + 1 is gonna pop up quite a few times. You keep rolling those dice and the number you're looking for will eventually pop up. It's a matter of how many opportunities you have to throw the dice, and that's impossible to say with our current ability to see inside other galaxies and actually catalog everything. Point being it's possible some other planet out there has the exact same conditions as ours, and could go through the exact same process. It could also be that life is determinate, and if it evolves at all it has to take the exact same steps life on this planet has taken to evolve, thus every intelligent life form at our stage of development would be human.
*edit: not that I prescribe to either two theories I proposed, merely I can't deny the possibility of either with the evidence at hand.
It still wouldn't be the same though. Are you familiar with convergent evolution? Basically the general idea is that selective pressures can create two very, very similar lifeforms that aren't actually related closely.
If we were to ever uncover human-like life that exactly resembled H. sapien they wouldn't actually be H. sapien, they'd be something else with their own unique genetic heritage that just so happens to resemble us.
I suppose with an infinite number of universes there might be one with humans all over the place, but there'd be multitudes more with pseudo-humans in all those places that just appear the same but aren't.
This.
Part of the definition of a "species" is the ability to mate and produce offspring with other members of the same population. Horses can make fertile offspring with other horses, they can not make any offspring with elks, and can only make sterile mules with donkeys. So by definition horses, elks, and donkeys are separate species. That despite the fact that all three share outward similarities, are related and share recent common ancestors.
The thylacine (the Tasmanian "wolf") was an Australian marsupial carnivore that evolved independently of the dog like placental mammals on the other continents. Yet it looked remarkably like wolves of the other continents. And it occupied a similar ecological niche as a fast moving predator. But despite that outward similarity the genetic distance between Tasmanian wolves and actual wolves is FAR greater than the genetic distance between horses and donkeys, or even between horses and elks.
The thylacine was the product of over 60 million years of separate evolution from placental mammals including actual wolves. So the now extinct creature was in a real sense "an extraterrestrial wolf" ( a lupine ET). But it could never interbred with terrestrial actual dogs, wolves, or even with dingos, to produce puppies. So it was a "wolf like species", but by definition it could not be classified as the same species as wolves.
Substitute "wolf" with human and the same applies. Another planet might evolve human shaped creatures, and they might be intelligent, and they might equal or exceed us in their acheivements in civilization. In other words they may "occupy the same ecological niche that we do on this planet". But they wouldn't be able to interbred with us. So by definition they couldn't be considered to be of our own species. Therefore they could not be considered "human".
22 May 2017, 10:05 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Earth has daffodils. The daffodil species, and its genome, are the product of four billion years of evolution on this planet. An earth like planet a thousand light years away may have independently evolved its own thousands of species of flowering planets, and may well have an organism that outwardly resembles a daffodil. But they couldn't literally be the same species as terrestrial daffodils. They would have a different genome that was the end product of a different several billion years of evolution on a separate planet from earth.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
Substitute "daffodil" with "Homo Sapien" and the same thing applies.
Human shaped creatures might well exist out in deep space somewhere. "Humanoids", but not actual "humans". The exact same species couldn't evolve independently on two different planets in two different star systems.
It depends, if you throw down a zillion dice, the number 1 million + 1 is gonna pop up quite a few times. You keep rolling those dice and the number you're looking for will eventually pop up. It's a matter of how many opportunities you have to throw the dice, and that's impossible to say with our current ability to see inside other galaxies and actually catalog everything. Point being it's possible some other planet out there has the exact same conditions as ours, and could go through the exact same process. It could also be that life is determinate, and if it evolves at all it has to take the exact same steps life on this planet has taken to evolve, thus every intelligent life form at our stage of development would be human.
*edit: not that I prescribe to either two theories I proposed, merely I can't deny the possibility of either with the evidence at hand.
It still wouldn't be the same though. Are you familiar with convergent evolution? Basically the general idea is that selective pressures can create two very, very similar lifeforms that aren't actually related closely.
If we were to ever uncover human-like life that exactly resembled H. sapien they wouldn't actually be H. sapien, they'd be something else with their own unique genetic heritage that just so happens to resemble us.
I suppose with an infinite number of universes there might be one with humans all over the place, but there'd be multitudes more with pseudo-humans in all those places that just appear the same but aren't.
This.
Part of the definition of a "species" is the ability to mate and produce offspring with other members of the same population. Horses can make fertile offspring with other horses, they can not make any offspring with elks, and can only make sterile mules with donkeys. So by definition horses, elks, and donkeys are separate species. That despite the fact that all three share outward similarities, are related and share recent common ancestors.
The thylacine (the Tasmanian "wolf") was an Australian marsupial carnivore that evolved independently of the dog like placental mammals on the other continents. Yet it looked remarkably like wolves of the other continents. And it occupied a similar ecological niche as a fast moving predator. But despite that outward similarity the genetic distance between Tasmanian wolves and actual wolves is FAR greater than the genetic distance between horses and donkeys, or even between horses and elks.
The thylacine was the product of over 60 million years of separate evolution from placental mammals including actual wolves. So the now extinct creature was in a real sense "an extraterrestrial wolf" ( a lupine ET). But it could never interbred with terrestrial actual dogs, wolves, or even with dingos, to produce puppies. So it was a "wolf like species", but by definition it could not be classified as the same species as wolves.
Substitute "wolf" with human and the same applies. Another planet might evolve human shaped creatures, and they might be intelligent, and they might equal or exceed us in their acheivements in civilization. In other words they may "occupy the same ecological niche that we do on this planet". But they wouldn't be able to interbred with us. So by definition they couldn't be considered to be of our own species. Therefore they could not be considered "human".
If the exact same 4.4 billion years of history on this planet were perfectly reproduced the resulting creatures would be identical. Including a mirror planet you and me with the exact same genetic code. And no I'm not talking alternate dimensions, I'm talking exact replica evolution which can't be proven nor denied because it's a matter of chance. It's virtually impossible to win the lottery twice, but people have done it, and any evolution on other planets we're talking about is a numbers game of chance as well.
