Gender equality

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Pepe
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07 Feb 2018, 5:18 pm

Mikah wrote:

"Indeed, these sex differences in play may represent evolved predispositions that reflect patterns of mating competition and parental investment that are shared by most mammalian species."

In the parlance of Bart Simpson...Duh...

My intention is to be humorous, not dismissive...

Mikah wrote:

So is this a cultural problem? Are corporations accidentally changing monkey culture by marketing the wrong toys to female monkeys? Which is why, when they grow up, all the male monkeys become more interested in science and get all those lucrative STEM jobs in the jungle.

Well, I am a complete pacifist...
However... :mrgreen:

I have an extreme interest in first person shooter type games...
While this is an antithesis in regards to my neo-cortically created ethical philosophy, I have to be honest and admit the fascination is definitely there no matter how hard I try to whip my infernal internal emotional reptile into line...

I accept these days that my interest is harmless, considering I'm no longer a child who can be effected negatively, so I am happy to frag the crap out of everyone... :mrgreen:

My personal belief, based on inner refection and the application of reason, is that in most cases, toy manufacturers merely provide what the consumers want...

P.S.
Aren't we a little off topic here?
I thought the discussion in this thread is about who insulted who... :mrgreen:

XenoMind
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07 Feb 2018, 8:19 pm

Mikah wrote:

This isn't the first research on differences between male and female brains and behaviors. But when facts contradict dogma, f**k those facts. That's how most human beings function.

Chronos
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07 Feb 2018, 8:51 pm

Mikah wrote:

Meanwhile in our primate cousins.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 23862/full

In a well-known study of captive vervet monkeys, Alexander and Hines (2002) found toy preferences among male and female vervets that paralleled human child toy preferences; males preferred toy cars and balls, whereas females preferred a doll and a pot. In a followup study of captive rhesus monkeys, Hassett et al. (2008) replicated the male preference for wheeled toys, but female preferences were more variable. […] There is emerging evidence of such differences in the wild. Immature chimpanzee males were found to engage in more object-oriented play than females (Koops et al., 2015), but female youngsters at one study site perform a specific behavior called “stick carrying,” in which a stick is cradled and carried in a form of play mothering, significantly more often than young males (Kahlenberg and Wrangham, 2010). Female biases in other forms of play parenting, such as interest in or attempting to interact with and carry other infants, are also widespread (e.g., western lowland gorillas, Meder, 1990; rhesus macaques: Lovejoy and Wallen, 1988; bonnet macaques: Silk, 1999; blue monkeys: Cords et al., 2010). Thus, there are diverse lines of evidence for sex differences in play behavior in many primate species. Indeed, these sex differences in play may represent evolved predispositions that reflect patterns of mating competition and parental investment that are shared by most mammalian species.

So is this a cultural problem? Are corporations accidentally changing monkey culture by marketing the wrong toys to female monkeys? Which is why, when they grow up, all the male monkeys become more interested in science and get all those lucrative STEM jobs in the jungle.

It's not entirely accurate to think that females are not as interested in all of STEM as males.

While I think the male demographic is naturally more inclined to be interested in EM than the female demographic, culture does have some influence over these interest. The incident of girls and women who are interested in EM and wish to pursue careers in it is much higher in India and middle eastern countries than it is in the U.S. As for STEM as a whole, the biological sciences and chemistry are teaming with women. Additionally, computer science used to be female dominated. The scarcity of women is in physics, non-biological engineering, and today, computer science, though between those three, the percentage of women is increasing.

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07 Feb 2018, 11:58 pm

Chronos wrote:

A possible explanation: it's money, not culture or interest in STEM that is driving women in those countries. Financial pressure on women (and their families to whom they are responsible) in India is huge compared to the still relatively wealthy West. When girls have less economic concerns, they are freer to pursue careers of choice rather than careers of pure subsistence. They generally marry later, if at all, for the same reason. Ironic if true, that greater options for women produces a greater gender disparity. I suppose if men went on a marriage strike and we removed the welfare state we might see Indian-style gender parity in STEM, but that would be a tough sell on election day.

Another interesting statistic: the labour force participation rate for women is falling in India, while the country grows richer. Simultaneously the average age of marriage is rising. Without the "women must work mantra" here in the West are more women in India choosing not to work at all if they don't need to? Plausible, but I'm not an expert on India.

The flip side of this of course is that men might be choosing STEM for financial reasons too, we have always had extra financial pressure on us because it's a factor in our attractiveness as mates. But I don't want to spark the NAWALT fire today.

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XenoMind
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08 Feb 2018, 12:21 pm

Chronos wrote:

Additionally, computer science used to be female dominated.

I didn't know that Turing, von Neumann, Dijkstra, Tompson, Ritchie, Kernigan, etc all were females.

Chronos
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08 Feb 2018, 5:55 pm

XenoMind wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Additionally, computer science used to be female dominated.

I didn't know that Turing, von Neumann, Dijkstra, Tompson, Ritchie, Kernigan, etc all were females.

Do you think the phrase "female dominated" means "all female"? My field is male dominated, does that imply to you that I am male?

XenoMind
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08 Feb 2018, 11:28 pm

Chronos wrote:

Do you think the phrase "female dominated" means "all female"?

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't mean "all male".

Chronos
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09 Feb 2018, 12:45 am

XenoMind wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Do you think the phrase "female dominated" means "all female"?

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't mean "all male".

Were you intending to be sarcastic then?

XenoMind
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09 Feb 2018, 11:42 am

Chronos wrote:

Were you intending to be sarcastic then?

Just pointed out the fact.
In the "female dominated" computer science all the most prolific scientists were males. Doesn't this ring something in your brains?

Pepe
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09 Feb 2018, 1:45 pm

XenoMind wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Were you intending to be sarcastic then?

Just pointed out the fact.
In the "female dominated" computer science all the most prolific scientists were males. Doesn't this ring something in your brains?

Ah!...
Finally I get the point...<sound of penny dropping>
D'oh!

paintmepink
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09 Feb 2018, 3:00 pm

Men would have to start dressing as women in the streets.

I have done so, so I have propelled gender equality. I did so for a week. I wore a wig; makeup; everything.

A steady and gradual erosion of males in the workforce works too.

Sweetleaf
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09 Feb 2018, 3:39 pm

I think a lot of people miss that the term means people are treated equally under the law regardless of gender. It doesn't mean making males and females the exact same. I mean it would make for an interesting sci-fi movie to have a society that has somehow transcended sex/gender and there is just one single sex, and they have to reproduce artificially...but that is not what most people who support Gender Equality are going for. Maybe a few fanatics have that as their end goal.

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paintmepink
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09 Feb 2018, 6:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

It does however, constitute transcending those female and male qualities between both genders.

Meaning that a large number of unskilled men will take on a domestic role, as where most women, skilled or unskilled, will enter the work force.

Pepe
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09 Feb 2018, 7:15 pm

paintmepink wrote:

Men would have to start dressing as women in the streets.

Me in a tutu?
That is somthing no one should ever see... :mrgreen:

kraftiekortie
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09 Feb 2018, 7:20 pm

I would look pretty grotesque in woman's clothes, too.

Pepe
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09 Feb 2018, 7:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I would look pretty grotesque in woman's clothes, too.

I find that hard to believe...
How about posting some selfies and let us all decide... :mrgreen:

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