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The_Face_of_Boo
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14 May 2018, 4:39 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Do you know that one of the factors of islamic terrorism in Saudi Arabia is polygyny?

Rich men get paired with several wives, leaving the poorer young men with no woman to pair with at all; so they end up following a religious ideology that promises them naked women in heaven. There's a serious social research on this, look it up.

In the more modernized world where poly marriage isn't the norm, I think there's a (growing) hidden form of polygyny going on as well - not in the form of a polygynous marriage - but in form of Playboys, rich and/or sexy men (with six-packs and nice cars... and so on) are being successfully players , having more than one gf or fwb at a time, or a one wife with few mistresses, usually behind her back. Women on the other hand tend to be less poly and less promiscuous.

I did put my picture with my girlfriend on the dating app where i met her, guess what happend? Many straight women are still interested in meeting me despite my obvious relationship status, and many bisexual women want a threesome relationship (sadly, my gf is totally against the idea, she's no bi :mrgreen: ). I bet there are far less straight men who would chase couples like that.

There's also the birth sex ratio which in almost most parts of the worlds, leaning to male; there are more boys being born than girls in the world and hence typically there are usually more young men than young women (it becomes the opposite at age 60+ because men die younger). So in a monogamous society, there's a mathematical impossibility for many young men to pair up with someone ...hence, at lot of incels.


It makes sense that all existing social structures will result in surplus men. Notably, it happens both in cases where women have complete freedom of choice, and where women are treated as chattel. The incel dream of returning western women to slave status looks like it won't work, either.

The world needs better education, ethics, and mental health care.


The social structure doesn’t explain a higher boy birth rate; I am not talking about the China case.
The reason is more likely biological- probably our species have evolved this way to compensate the higher mortality of boys in the past, which is no longer the case with the advancements of health and security.

Also couples are having less sex - there are studies showing that millennials are having less sex frequently; a less frequent sex increases the likehood of having a boy because sperma Y swims faster than X - while a more frequent sex increases the probability of having a girl due to longer life longevity of sperma X. biological.



Hollywood_Guy
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14 May 2018, 6:46 pm

Closet Genious wrote:
^^ Pushing responsibility is fine to an extent imo, but it has to be balanced with the fact that there’s some(alot) of biological determinism at play here.
It just doesn’t help, nor make any sense when people won’t aknowledge that the incels actually have a point..
Some people are born to be able to get laid with no effort, for most of us it requires quite a bit of effort. For incels, no matter how much effort, they are completely unable to get laid at all, and it has little to do with their attitude or them being misogynistic. Misogyny might be the result of their grievances, but it’s not the cause.

They’ve been dealt a sh***y hand in life, and I generally sympathize with them. Lecturing them about their attitude, is no different that telling poor people to stop being lazy. I can’t imagine an incel responding well to that, they would probably just tell you to go f**k yourself.

I think the OP brought up some great points regarding sex dolls/robots. Technology might be the great solution and equalizer here.


Even if sex dolls/robots do come into play and becomes a solution, it will still be somewhat artificial. It won't exactly change the root problem, which are the way gender or social dynamics operate today. I think this might be possible to change.

I am slightly on the anti- side of the dolls/robots solution.



Kraichgauer
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14 May 2018, 7:49 pm

What other solution is there for incels then? Do like in The Lobster, and change them into their favorite animal?


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techstepgenr8tion
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14 May 2018, 8:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
What other solution is there for incels then? Do like in The Lobster, and change them into their favorite animal?

I've heard Ellen Pao's looking for a date.


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Kraichgauer
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14 May 2018, 10:38 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
What other solution is there for incels then? Do like in The Lobster, and change them into their favorite animal?

I've heard Ellen Pao's looking for a date.


I'm afraid I don't recall who Ellen Pao is. Or to put it another way: Eh?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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15 May 2018, 1:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
What other solution is there for incels then? Do like in The Lobster, and change them into their favorite animal?


The only solution is *drums*:













A regional war with Iran!! !

Send any surplus of males as a fodder infantry.


Here, take a look at that:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/241 ... x-and-age/

At ages between 5 and 34 you have more males, except for the 20-24 age bracket...... but there's a key note there:

Supplementary notes
Excludes Armed Forces overseas.


Most of the armed forces overseas are male I suppose, and most infantry are probably aged between 20-24 , coincidence? I think not.

But that's not all! Even for the age brackets where men and women percentages are almost equal, that doesn't mean the chances of pair up are equal between the two sexes!

It's not in the favor of men, and that's why:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-women ... tionships/

Quote:
Shedding new light on sexuality in U.S. adults under age 45, new research reveals women are almost three times as likely to report same-sex intimacy as men. And almost 7 percent say they're gay or bisexual compared to 4 percent of men.


I always suspected there are more lesbians than gays in most populations.


So yeah, you have really more young straight men than young straight women, Trump may do something about it. :mrgreen: Too much untamed testosterone cannot be healthy for a nation.



techstepgenr8tion
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15 May 2018, 6:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
What other solution is there for incels then? Do like in The Lobster, and change them into their favorite animal?

I've heard Ellen Pao's looking for a date.


I'm afraid I don't recall who Ellen Pao is. Or to put it another way: Eh?

She's pretty much Anita Sarkeesian for incels.
https://www.inverse.com/article/44540-i ... con-valley


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Drake
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15 May 2018, 8:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
What other solution is there for incels then? Do like in The Lobster, and change them into their favorite animal?

I don't look at the robots as a solution, more like a nicotine patch so to speak, to help keep the feelings under control. As I said earlier, this wouldn't have helped Rodger, but it would help others.



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15 May 2018, 8:43 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
^^ Pushing responsibility is fine to an extent imo, but it has to be balanced with the fact that there’s some(alot) of biological determinism at play here.
It just doesn’t help, nor make any sense when people won’t aknowledge that the incels actually have a point..
Some people are born to be able to get laid with no effort, for most of us it requires quite a bit of effort. For incels, no matter how much effort, they are completely unable to get laid at all, and it has little to do with their attitude or them being misogynistic. Misogyny might be the result of their grievances, but it’s not the cause.

They’ve been dealt a sh***y hand in life, and I generally sympathize with them. Lecturing them about their attitude, is no different that telling poor people to stop being lazy. I can’t imagine an incel responding well to that, they would probably just tell you to go f**k yourself.

I think the OP brought up some great points regarding sex dolls/robots. Technology might be the great solution and equalizer here.


No, I'm not "meeting anyone in the middle" who wants to throw acid in my face.

Men who can't get sex are not "victims" because sex is not a right.

Most of the incel men I've seen look completely normal. Their problem is their over-inflated sense of entitlement. Judging by the recent spate of shootings, it seems some modern men think that taking their frustrations out on other people is acceptable. If a white guy shoots-up a black church, we don't sit around and opine that the economy is crap and maybe he was just "frustrated," but it seems to be the excuse for these misogyny-based killings. That George Sodini idiot was mad because hot 20-somethings weren't impressed by his $5,000 car and big screen TV. Not a victim.

And sex robots might solve some of the problem, but sick f_cks like Elliot Rodger are never going to be satisfied with a robot.


That's a poor analysis. You know who feels entitled? Sexually dominant males, the kind of men who will grope you in a club. Most incels are extremely passive. Entitlement is not even in the neighbourhood of being the actual issue.


If you want to hurt women because they won't have sex with you, then, yes, you have an entitlement problem. The manifestos of both Elliot Rodgers and George Sodini reeked of entitlement.


I objectively Elliot Rodgers was not ugly. He had a pleasant, symmetrical face with clear skin and good hair. He was also a pathological narcissist who didn't even talk to women and then hated them for not submitting to him. It's not about their looks, it's about how they treat people (especially women.)

I'm not saying you should have sympathy, but I do have sympathy for Rodgers because of his very strong emotions. That and the fact you can't help what you long for are beyond your control, which led to his suffering and going over the edge, and I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if not for these factors. He didn't help himself though by actively fuelling his anger and jealousy and his irrational beliefs like feeling people were hurting him on purpose by being intimate in his presence.

As for his looks, he was saddled with being really short for a man, which is well known to be unattractive to women. And he was cripplingly socially anxious, more factors outside of his control.



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15 May 2018, 8:55 am

Drake wrote:
As for his looks, he was saddled with being really short for a man, which is well known to be unattractive to women.


According to Google, Rodger was 5’9”. Why aren’t midgets on the rampage if height is such a factor? He was just a spoiled little boy.



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15 May 2018, 9:02 am

hobojungle wrote:
Drake wrote:
As for his looks, he was saddled with being really short for a man, which is well known to be unattractive to women.


According to Google, Rodger was 5’9”. Why aren’t midgets on the rampage if height is such a factor? He was just a spoiled little boy.

I thought he was about 5'4, but I distinctly remember in his manifesto him talking about being the shortest at school. He might have put on a spurt or something, it was a long time ago I read that thing, 5'9 would be average for a man.

But it comes down to how you are. Many people are looking for sex and relationships and not finding them, but most don't think of themselves as incels, they think of themselves as single, and could carry on with life normally enough even if they stay single until the day they die. Rodger was built so that he had a burning, all consuming desire for one thing that he was built to be almost certain to never be able to get.



techstepgenr8tion
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15 May 2018, 11:47 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I objectively Elliot Rodgers was not ugly. He had a pleasant, symmetrical face with clear skin and good hair. He was also a pathological narcissist who didn't even talk to women and then hated them for not submitting to him. It's not about their looks, it's about how they treat people (especially women.)

I can't speak for Elliot Rodgers but I can say that if a guy is abused enough he gets marked in his body language, it shows as a deep lack of confidence, and no matter how good looking he's highly unlikely to end up in a relationship. That's not so much to cry about men have it as to say that nature is ice cold and in the specific way that it's ice cold for guys any form of weakness or any sign of punishment for past weakness is constantly getting probed for. In that sense you can't say that just because a guy is good looking and incel means it's all his fault - it might be, or it might not be, and we don't really know unless we have something akin to a reliable biography or autobiography.

For Elliot Rogers I have no idea in that he clearly took a very decisive, and malevolent, approach to reconciling his problems and the wrongness of that action I doubt needs any debate. Whether or not his inceldom originated from women seeing an awful person and staying away from them I don't know, although I'm sure in a way at this point any woman who did make that decision about him - likely much to their chagrin - is fully vindicated by his actions.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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15 May 2018, 1:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I objectively Elliot Rodgers was not ugly. He had a pleasant, symmetrical face with clear skin and good hair. He was also a pathological narcissist who didn't even talk to women and then hated them for not submitting to him. It's not about their looks, it's about how they treat people (especially women.)

I can't speak for Elliot Rodgers but I can say that if a guy is abused enough he gets marked in his body language, it shows as a deep lack of confidence, and no matter how good looking he's highly unlikely to end up in a relationship. That's not so much to cry about men have it as to say that nature is ice cold and in the specific way that it's ice cold for guys any form of weakness or any sign of punishment for past weakness is constantly getting probed for. In that sense you can't say that just because a guy is good looking and incel means it's all his fault - it might be, or it might not be, and we don't really know unless we have something akin to a reliable biography or autobiography.

For Elliot Rogers I have no idea in that he clearly took a very decisive, and malevolent, approach to reconciling his problems and the wrongness of that action I doubt needs any debate. Whether or not his inceldom originated from women seeing an awful person and staying away from them I don't know, although I'm sure in a way at this point any woman who did make that decision about him - likely much to their chagrin - is fully vindicated by his actions.



If you've watched any of his videos and heard how he talked and what he was like personally, you can see for yourself why no women wanted to be around him. He was an awful, awful person. He was angry and crazy and mean and nasty. I have no sympathy for someone like that and I'm so tired of people talking about him like he is worthy of sympathy because he may have been bullied. Lots of people are bullied and don't use that as an excuse to go on a murderous rampage--the ones who do use it as an excuse don't deserve any sympathy or attention.



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15 May 2018, 3:54 pm

[quote="Drake”] Rodger was built so that he had a burning, all consuming desire for one thing that he was built to be almost certain to never be able to get.[/quote]

He had a burning, all consuming desire for narcissistic supply.



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15 May 2018, 5:14 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
If you've watched any of his videos and heard how he talked and what he was like personally, you can see for yourself why no women wanted to be around him. He was an awful, awful person. He was angry and crazy and mean and nasty. I have no sympathy for someone like that and I'm so tired of people talking about him like he is worthy of sympathy because he may have been bullied. Lots of people are bullied and don't use that as an excuse to go on a murderous rampage--the ones who do use it as an excuse don't deserve any sympathy or attention.


Alright - as long as we clarified, looks don't equal a free pass from inceldom.


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15 May 2018, 9:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
If you've watched any of his videos and heard how he talked and what he was like personally, you can see for yourself why no women wanted to be around him. He was an awful, awful person. He was angry and crazy and mean and nasty. I have no sympathy for someone like that and I'm so tired of people talking about him like he is worthy of sympathy because he may have been bullied. Lots of people are bullied and don't use that as an excuse to go on a murderous rampage--the ones who do use it as an excuse don't deserve any sympathy or attention.


Alright - as long as we clarified, looks don't equal a free pass from inceldom.


Indeed. There are lots of ways to be personally repulsive--being ugly is only the most obvious, and it's not guaranteed to repulse people. If you have other qualities that make people more willing to look past the surface you might have a shot making relationships with people. If you have a repellent personality no one is going to want to hang around you and blaming other people for that reality (that personally repellent people do indeed repel other people) is ridiculous and self-defeating.