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TERF's - Feminists that don't think trans women are women

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magz
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31 Dec 2019, 5:53 am

domineekee wrote:
(And here we have an actual TERF saying the same thing)

https://janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

Thanks for posting! At last the voice of some real TERF or at least a real trans-sceptic feminist.
My own feelings about it:

1. Wow! I'm glad it's not my war!
2. I share her opinion that a belief in "gender essence" is potentially horribly sexist.


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31 Dec 2019, 6:04 am

Bradleigh wrote:
domineekee wrote:
Oh I see. Sorry for ruining your joke and thanks for your patience.


All good, tone does not come across easy in writing, and would be easy to pass over something as a misspelling. I should probably apologise if I came across offended, because I wasn't, was just a dumb attempt to set up another joke like pretending like it was some offense when really it is nothing. Again does not really work in written form and people can get serious about the weirdest things.

I'll probably miss those subtleties but your explanations have been very helpful.



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31 Dec 2019, 6:38 am

magz wrote:
domineekee wrote:
(And here we have an actual TERF saying the same thing)

https://janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

Thanks for posting! At last the voice of some real TERF or at least a real trans-sceptic feminist.
My own feelings about it:

1. Wow! I'm glad it's not my war!
2. I share her opinion that a belief in "gender essence" is potentially horribly sexist.


Reading this TERF literature doesn't deter me from supporting Trans Rights, how about you?



magz
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31 Dec 2019, 6:44 am

domineekee wrote:
Reading this TERF literature doesn't deter me from supporting Trans Rights, how about you?

I don't really know what Trans Rights are.


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kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2019, 6:47 am

One “Trans Right” is being allowed to use the WC of your chosen gender.



magz
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31 Dec 2019, 6:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
One “Trans Right” is being allowed to use the WC of your chosen gender.

I have no problem with that.
Whatever makes you comfortable as long as you behave respectfully towards others. Applies to cis people as well.


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31 Dec 2019, 7:58 am

magz wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
One “Trans Right” is being allowed to use the WC of your chosen gender.

I have no problem with that.
Whatever makes you comfortable as long as you behave respectfully towards others. Applies to cis people as well.

I read somewhere that cis-men are way more concerned about that particular issue (feel protective) than cis-women.



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31 Dec 2019, 8:06 am

They do....because there’s the (slight) possibility) that some cis-male pervert will claim the right to use the female bathroom, and will get his jollies through watching women “do their thing,” and maybe install a camera in a stall to videotape women “doing their thing.”

Or maybe something worse.



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31 Dec 2019, 8:08 am

My office has a policy where a gender male/sex female, and vice versa, can use the bathroom of their chosen gender.

I have no particular objection.



magz
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31 Dec 2019, 8:15 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
They do....because there’s the (slight) possibility) that some cis-male pervert will claim the right to use the female bathroom, and will get his jollies through watching women “do their thing,” and maybe install a camera in a stall to videotape women “doing their thing.”

Or maybe something worse.

I have came across a male pervert claiming to be a transwoman.
You have no idea how combative a group of women can be :twisted: (at least in my culture)

By the way, I see no fundamental difference between male pervert claiming to be trans and female lesbian pervert. We all need protection against pervert behavior, no matter who would show it.


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kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2019, 8:18 am

Exactly. Of course.



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31 Dec 2019, 8:30 am

If we enact these policies, we have to watch out for the possibility of perverts taking advantage of the law.

Of course, women can police the bathroom themselves...but why must they have to police the bathroom?

Not advocating IDing people. Or actually stopping people to ask questions.

Just security guards using common sense, and being around in case something happens.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 31 Dec 2019, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2019, 8:37 am

I’ve known Trans people. I don’t feel a visceral distaste for them. I admire their resilience amid their struggles.



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31 Dec 2019, 9:02 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I do not come across as a bigot, except to those who take issue with independent and rational thought.
You compared transgender people to drag comedy and kabuki theatre.
No, I did not. I compared men wearing women's clothing to drag comedy and Kabuki Theatre.  Don't post lies about me.
Bradleigh wrote:
You are taking this discussion to the history of theatre including in the likes of historical performances of Shakespeare plays when women were not allowed to act at all and men filled in all roles?
Yeah, so? Deal with it.
Bradleigh wrote:
... you are going to use it as justification for beliefs that trans people are just confused or worse, then I am going to feel comfortable seeing you as a bigot.
Have I stated such a belief? No. You presume too much.
Bradleigh wrote:
Your statement about people having issue with "independent and rational though" means very little if you are ignoring the individual experiences, and keeping to beliefs that ignore facts out of irrational fears.
Your efforts to mis-represent what I have posted may indicate that you have already decided to single me out as a scapegoat for your own prejudices.

Again, a man does not become a woman simply by wearing women's clothing. On that we agree. Any disagreement beyond that is mere presumption on your part, not mine.

Get over yourself.


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31 Dec 2019, 9:55 am

Okay Fnord, maybe I misread what your thoughts are on transgender people. Care to express your what your thoughts actually are on transgender people?

What do you think of someone with a penis wearing women clothing?


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Fnord
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31 Dec 2019, 10:02 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Okay Fnord, maybe I misread what your thoughts are on transgender people. Care to express your what your thoughts actually are on transgender people? What do you think of someone with a penis wearing women clothing?
Care to get off my back and take your hatred elsewhere?


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