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Kyle Rittenhouse included in heroes list in school

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cberg
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23 Sep 2020, 5:08 pm

So do you condone extrajudicial killing in Sweden or are you simply enjoying the show?


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23 Sep 2020, 5:16 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Nor is having family and friends any kind of defense when someone defends themself against your attacks.


If only it truly were self defense.

Idk is it self defense if I were to take a dollop of peanut butter and start aggressively approaching someone with a severe peanut allergy, someone tackles me to stop me potentially killing that poor person with the peanut allergy, so then I punch them in the face because 'self defense'.


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Wolfram87
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23 Sep 2020, 5:19 pm

There have been so much that I don't condone going on for so long that I find it hard to muster the outrage people want to heap onto this particular incident because Rittenhiuse was pro-cop and pro-gun. Millions in damages, much of which will be carried by small businesses. Arson, vandalism, rapes and looting. 30+ people dead, countless injured and untold numbers of lives in ruin. But three rioters getting shot while attacking some kid that admittedly probably should've stayed home? That's the tragedy? That's the takeaway here?


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23 Sep 2020, 5:20 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
There have been so much that I don't condone going on for so long that I find it hard to muster the outrage people want to heap onto this particular incident because Rittenhiuse was pro-cop and pro-gun. Millions in damages, much of which will be carried by small businesses. Arson, vandalism, rapes and looting. 30+ people dead, countless injured and untold numbers of lives in ruin. But three rioters getting shot while attacking some kid that admittedly probably should've stayed home? That's the tragedy? That's the takeaway here?


What evidence do you have that the victims were involved in rioting? Does being shot by a violent criminal at a protest inherently make one a rioter?


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Wolfram87
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23 Sep 2020, 5:26 pm

Throwing bottles, firing guns, pushing burning dumpsters towards gas stations...where's the line for a riot?


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funeralxempire
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23 Sep 2020, 5:27 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Throwing bottles, firing guns, pushing burning dumpsters towards gas stations...where's the line for a riot?


Do you have evidence that the individual victims were directly involved in such activity?


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23 Sep 2020, 5:37 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
There have been so much that I don't condone going on for so long that I find it hard to muster the outrage people want to heap onto this particular incident because Rittenhiuse was pro-cop and pro-gun. Millions in damages, much of which will be carried by small businesses. Arson, vandalism, rapes and looting. 30+ people dead, countless injured and untold numbers of lives in ruin. But three rioters getting shot while attacking some kid that admittedly probably should've stayed home? That's the tragedy? That's the takeaway here?


I cannot say of all the things going on that this one incident is 'the' tragedy of it all. It's just the tip of the iceberg...one more disturbing incident.

These right wing militias and lone wolves(provided rittenhouse was not part of a larger right wing miltia) are kind of terrifying. And worse when one of them does go over-board and shoot two people they were allowed to drive home spend a nice night in his bed before facing arrest, then the president of the united states justifies his crime.

Then on the west coast with all the fires there are armed militia groups stopping people at gun-point in the middle of an evacuation...what does the police chief or whatever do? He doesn't send officers to arrest these people, he just says basically 'guys you should stop, that's illegal' but took no action to put a stop to it.

These two things taken together with everything else paint a kind of disturbing picture of what could be to come. It's not so much about screw kyle rittenhouse and 'oh those poor victims' to me it's further example of the growing fascism. May as well have armed brown-shirts marching around at this point.

To sum it up, I don't want to get gunned down by armed thugs whether it's police or armed right wing militia. And seeing it out in the open with the police refusing to take action, even working with these militias in some instances is scary as hell. I don't want to spend my 30's in a authoritarian police state, where liberals are are considered 'the enemy'.


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23 Sep 2020, 5:50 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Throwing bottles, firing guns, pushing burning dumpsters towards gas stations...where's the line for a riot?


Do you have evidence that the individual victims were directly involved in such activity?


I would like to see it...


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23 Sep 2020, 5:54 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Kyle did not shoot first.


Is this proven beyond a shadow of doubt?

Again refer to the witness statement I last posted that claimed Rittenhouse was in a sniper position aiming his gun at random people trying to leave the scene and one witness also claimed he asked a people leaving to get out of their vehicle using his gun.

He has a lot of hoops to jump through so this is going to be a tough defence for Trumper Lin Wood

The best case scenario for Rittenhouse is that somebody fired in the air and spooked Rittenhouse who did what is classically known in war circles where untrained soldiers shoot at people thinking they was under attack often killing their own men. That would explain why other militia (who were initially filmed with him) took off leaving him because I suspect they also thought he went rogue.

The Kenosha militia are supporting Rittenhouse by maintaining a wall of silence and taking down any mention of him on facebook.



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23 Sep 2020, 6:04 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The two people you gleefully say "won't be attacking anyone else again," had families and friends. I believe the man who tried to disarm that armed kid with a skateboard (now, that's real courage) was a father.


They were also sex offenders, domestic abusers and felons. What's your point?


Yeah I notice you and Bric keep using this defence which is weird. Having a criminal record doesn't automatically make you a criminal unless you act in a criminal manner.

The family and friends of Huber (one of the murder victims) are putting in a seperate criminal case against Rittenhouse because they are claiming he (Huber) was trying to protect his girlfriend and others in the vicinity because the people present actually thought Rittenhouse was some type of serial killer. Are you accusing everyone associated with victim are also criminals including the witnesses? sounds fairly desperate?

But I am sure Rittenhouse's defence will try and make as much mud stick in painting the victims in a bad light. In legal circles its called "character assassination".

Let's see



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23 Sep 2020, 6:11 pm

Here's the witness statement again
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/loc ... 656907002/

Jermiah described a teen with his cap turned backwards in a sniper position pointing his gun at civlians trying to escape

Image

No doubt who it was he identified from the pictures. Also no explanation where Rittenhouses's friends seen with him prior to the shooting (who were also identified as intimidating civilians) vanished to when he started his rampage.

Not much a militia when they are supposed to be leaving "no man left behind" doesn't make much sense....any Rittenhouse fans got some crackpot theory to defend the Kenosha militia vanishing act?



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23 Sep 2020, 8:03 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Here's the witness statement again
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/loc ... 656907002/

Jermiah described a teen with his cap turned backwards in a sniper position pointing his gun at civlians trying to escape

Image

No doubt who it was he identified from the pictures. Also no explanation where Rittenhouses's friends seen with him prior to the shooting (who were also identified as intimidating civilians) vanished to when he started his rampage.

Not much a militia when they are supposed to be leaving "no man left behind" doesn't make much sense....any Rittenhouse fans got some crackpot theory to defend the Kenosha militia vanishing act?


Strange, then, that this wasn't included in charging documents...If it actually happened.

Based on the information and facts which I have seen (not being a "low information" person, I've looked into the information from both sides with an open mind), it seems likely that many here who wish to believe the worst of Kyle are likely (alhough not certain) to be disappointed in the verdict that arises in the trial.

Of course, it is possible that new evidence (rather than hearsay\wishes) may come out which changes things, at which point I'm happy to reconsider my opinion.



cberg
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23 Sep 2020, 8:06 pm

Your opinions rely heavily on the assumption that shooting people is justifiable.


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cberg
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23 Sep 2020, 8:08 pm

Quote:
In legal circles its called "character assassination".


Legal circles? Are you sure you don't mean lynch mobs?


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Brictoria
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23 Sep 2020, 8:55 pm

cberg wrote:
Your opinions rely heavily on the assumption that shooting people is justifiable.


Quote:
939.48  Self-defense and defense of others.
(1)  A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

Source: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48

Under the statute, force which "is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm" IS permitted in cases where "the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself".

So yes, in certain circumstances, "shooting people is justifiable" under the law. Whether you agree with the law or not is a different matter.

It is also worth noting, that on each occasion when Kyle fired his weapon, it was as a result of (and in reaction to) others preventing him leaving an area, instead pursuing and attacking him. None of the shots were fired at a person he was running towards, nor did he fire at anyone who was not either causing harm to himself or threatening to do so.

On a side note, it appears that I was mistaken in another thread where someone claimed he "emptied his magazine" into the crowd. At the time I stated he only fired 7 shots (less than 1/4 of the magazine) - It seems he may have instead fired 8-9 rounds in total (between 1/4 and 1/3 of the magazine) - still far below the claim of "emptying the magazine.



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23 Sep 2020, 8:56 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The two people you gleefully say "won't be attacking anyone else again," had families and friends. I believe the man who tried to disarm that armed kid with a skateboard (now, that's real courage) was a father.


They were also sex offenders, domestic abusers and felons. What's your point?


My point is, someone had loved each of them. There's a place torn out of several people's hearts, now.


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